Hi,
Has any one ever used Speer Shot Capsules in a big bore rifle?
Something like a 458 lott or 458 wm.
I would only use them on snakes. Yes I hate snakes.
hjl

I have tried 1 ounce of shot loaded straight into the case, (458 Lott) Using over powder and over shot cards.

The rifling plays hell on your pattern very quickly.

A rifle makes a POOR shotgun.

Keith

Thanks Hog Killer for your reply.
hjl

hjl

I wanted pretty much the same thing as what you are talking about, and I went about it like Keith did, loaded shot into the case on top of a card, and this worked good to about 10 yds. But keith is correct past that it's not much to it. The biggest issue is the leading that is left in the barrel from the shot, which I never really got to a "reasonable" solution for the problem. As I recall I even used some of the shotshell capsules. I was serious about this, run a big test on it a couple of years ago and posted everything.

Here is the thread, go take a look.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...1951051011&f=4711043

My purpose was 100% for snakes too, and it will work for that, but there are consequences to be dealt with.

Michael

Why not carry a 44mag revolver with same shot load for quicker access, rather than messing with changing loads in a rifle? A revolver also be handy for other problems or fun. There are some light 44 special DA revolvers too, but I dont know if the shot loads available in 44 special. Something like Ruger SA with 4 or 5 inch bbl packs pretty easy too.

fourbore

Excellent point, and if you are in the good old US of A then that is not much of an issue. However, not an option for most other countries that one might travel to. I was working on my project to have a few for Africa or Australia. I dearly hate a snake period, does not matter what kind, good or bad, there are no good ones! All should die.

Michael

I tried this in my .405Win Ruger #1. I used .410 plastic shot cups and cardboard over wads with #8 shot over a load of Unique. It was a good looking shell but the pattern looked like the planet Saturn. At 10 yards about 20% of the shot in a central cluster, a gap and then the other 80% in a huge fringe. I'd guess the rifling got enough purchase on the shot cup to set it spinning.

It would work for snakes that were close enough to bother you but not for small game or birds.

Hmmm, no handguns in Australia? I guess a lot changed since Quigly went down under. Thats too bad.

fourbore

No, didn't say that. I have friends there with all sorts of handguns. But for me to take a handgun, although it might be possible, it's not a simple ordeal to do so. Africa the same, things change quite a bit since I first started going across the ponds. Just not as easy as it used to be to carry a handgun, some countries not an option at all.

Michael

I do see hjl is from Australia. So; using a revolve might be an option, depending on the situation. But, guess I am guilty of a hijack again. Since his question is valid to ask, handgun option or no.

To take hijack even further, I wonder if some of those anti-handgun countries allow black powder pistols? Worked for me in my teen years.

edit: Here you go-

http://www.davide-pedersoli.co...egoriaId=129&lang=en

Pedersoli 20 ga Howdah pistol.

Hi to all,
Thanks to all who have replied.
Special thanks to Michael458 for his posts.It seems we share a fear of snakes.
In Australia we are not allowed to carry handguns for any hunting. Can only use them at the range.
Has anyone tried the 45 cal speer capsules in a 45 cal rifle?
Thanks
hjl

Buy a 410 or 12 gauge shotgun. Bolt action
or Single shot.

12 Gauge Bolt actions are dirt cheap
and you can leave the Magazine loaded
ready to go.

Cheap and easy.

500N

Where have you been? I have heard nothing from you on the "Double Rifle Bullet of the Future" Whats with that? LOL

OK, the shotgun bolt gun is fine, but what about being able to shoot that buffalo he is hunting, now one has to hunt buffalo, or snakes, but can't do both with a shotgun! With a 458 he can! But at a cost of leading the barrel.

hjl

I have not solved the issues with leading the barrel with anything. Use copper coated shot, still get leading, use steel bbs, patterns are shit. Close as I have come to is two sheets of paper holding the shot in, which reduces the amount of shot greatly, but does not lead the barrel, and patterns are good for snakes up to about 5 yds, which is plenty. Now this leading is horrendous. In 3-5 rds of naked shot going down the bore of the rifle, it reduces velocity of a standard round by 150 + fps, and the first two shots will burn that leading out, but your rifle looks like you are shooting black powder there is so much smoke!

I have used the shotshell capsules in the 458s and don't waste your time. It would be doubtful you would hit a snake at snake distances! Work in the handguns, don't work in the rifles for crap. If you hit a snake it would be luck!

Michael

Ok, now we understand that Oz has a handgun hunting restriction. Can a black powder replica handgun be carried during hunting? Lemat, Howdah or simple single shot smooth bore percussion would all work. No shortage of carry weight v. power range to choose from Pedersoli and so many others.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
500N

Where have you been? I have heard nothing from you on the "Double Rifle Bullet of the Future" Whats with that? LOL

OK, the shotgun bolt gun is fine, but what about being able to shoot that buffalo he is hunting, now one has to hunt buffalo, or snakes, but can't do both with a shotgun! With a 458 he can! But at a cost of leading the barrel.

Michael

Yes you can. Use Brenneke slugs for Buffalo and shot for snakes.
A 12 Gauge with a Brenneke is just a modern version of a Paradox.


And for your info, Aboriginies seem to think whatever they have in their hands
is suitable for Buffalo !!! LOL

Believe me, I have cut up a Buffalo that had more holes in it than a pepper pot
- I hate to think how many times they shot it with a shotgun.


I'll try to visit the thread you mentioned later.

.

I found the CCI shot shell good in the 357Mag L/A
http://www.cci-ammunition.com/...ail.aspx?loadNo=3709
You can also buy them at Aussie local gun shops.
Tears the crutch out of vermin.

What is a 357 L/A? A Lever action rifle. They make those in 22mag and 44 also.

hjl is hunting with a 458 mag rifle and it sounds like the shot capsules reloads in 458 will not work very well.

I still wonder what the Australia policy is on black powder replica pistols for carry while hunting. You can stuff a lot of shot in some of those old BP pistols. Maybe even use 44 shot capsules in a revolver? Dunno....

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
fourbore

Excellent point, and if you are in the good old US of A then that is not much of an issue. However, not an option for most other countries that one might travel to. I was working on my project to have a few for Africa or Australia. I dearly hate a snake period, does not matter what kind, good or bad, there are no good ones! All should die.

Michael

Snakes are protected in Australia. The laws against killing themm are even harsher than those against using a handgun hunting. leave the cartridges at home and get the farmers kid to bash it with a shovel if it bothers you that much. Works for us

Seriously we only bother if its in the house or henhouse etc. A snake in the australian bush has no interest in people and goes about its business. For every one you see, you probably missed the last ten, which slithered off as soon as they heard/felt you clomping their direction.

Karl.

Hey Karl

Long time no see! Don't tell me about the laws and snakes, tell hjl, he's Australian, and he must be like me when it comes to "snakes", we make our own laws when they cross our path! Where I was in Australia I did not see any farms, farmers, farmers kids. In fact, it was rare to see anyone at all. Believe me I would gladly pay a hit man, or farmers kid, to sort it out while I ran like hell the other way!

Fortunately I never saw a snake on my little adventure, there or not, long as I didn't see them I was happy!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Hey Karl

Long time no see! Don't tell me about the laws and snakes, tell hjl, he's Australian

Michael

I'll tell anyone who is talking about developing cartridges for use on protected species on a public forum.

"I was working on my project to have a few for Africa or Australia. I dearly hate a snake period"




Karl.

Karl

We can always count on you, Tell everyone you want! So will I!

I have it Karl, just the solution for you. Go active, start a new Green Peace! Instead of Whales, you could be "Save The Snakes". I think it's rather catchy. Not sure how much support you will get however?

Just trying to help out!


Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Karl

We can always count on you, Tell everyone you want! So will I!

I can handle this one thanks.Its not hard to tell fool tourists posting about illegal hunting activity publicly. Whether they are smart enough to take their medicine and move on is another story

As to the snakes,they are already well represented by our national parks service, as our most of our native species.

I think regardless of how unpopular the animal is, intelligent money is on respecting the hunting laws of the country you visit.

Karl.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Hey Karl
Where I was in Australia I did not see any farms, farmers, farmers kids. In fact, it was rare to see anyone at all. Believe me I would gladly pay a hit man, or farmers kid, to sort it out while I ran like hell the other way!

Fortunately I never saw a snake on my little adventure, there or not, long as I didn't see them I was happy!

Michael

Michael,

The snakes, farmers, farmers kids et all all ran the other way when they saw you coming,
that's why you didn't see anyone

If a snake bit you, the snake would die from poisoning !!! LOL

.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
Michael,

The snakes, farmers, farmers kids et all all ran the other way when they saw you coming,
that's why you didn't see anyone

If a snake bit you, the snake would die from poisoning !!! LOL

.

500N

You may very well be right, I caught only glimpses of people and animals running away when I arrived last year! I was wondering what that was all about? I was looking behind myself, to see if I needed to be running away too, I never seen anything? It never occurred to me it might have been me?


You are most likely correct on the matter of the snake biting me and then rolling over dead too! I never get bitten by bugs, either. We were in Tanzania once and the flies were eating every one to pieces, never touched me at all. They land, then fall off and die? Same with mosquito.

Since I have not ever been bitten by a snake I am not sure how far they would get before turning belly up?

Damn, I wish you had not mentioned this, now Karl will try and get me banned from coming to Australia, just on the off chance a "protected Species" might bite me, and then die!



Michael

Michael

LOL

Don't worry, you are already on the banned list, I submitted your name myself !!!

The reason ?

For having very way out views on bullet technology


Hope to catch up for a drink if ever we are in the same loc.

500N

HEH HEH! Excellent!

Next time I am in country I will for sure let you and a few others know my agenda, we will most certainly find some common ground and have a drink if at all possible, on me!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
snake

a "protected Species"

Michael

Much better.

Enjoy your hunting

You may have different experiences with snakes than I do, but most of the time all you need to do when you see a snake is stop, back up a few steps, and wait for them to move off. The exception being some of the bigger cotton mouth snakes that don't want to budge from their spot. A nice stout stick will take care of them. Their skulls are pretty easy to crush.

quote:

Originally posted by Muletrain:
You may have different experiences with snakes than I do, but most of the time all you need to do when you see a snake is stop, back up a few steps, and wait for them to move off. The exception being some of the bigger cotton mouth snakes that don't want to budge from their spot. A nice stout stick will take care of them. Their skulls are pretty easy to crush.

After stepping back, Stamp your feet on the ground. They move out of the way.

I'll only shoot or kill them if they 1. Strike at me and 2. If near a farm house and are in an agro mood 3. Come towards me across water when I am in the water.

In 30 years, only had to kill 2 of them and one was because we ran over - by accident, the other was hunting frogs in water and rose up and struck at me.

.

Except for black mambas or spitting cobras...stamping your feet will get you an eye full of poisin or a very swift bite. Black mambas have the same easy going termperment as black rhino - fortunately they are fairly rare but I lost one game scout who was bitten by one.

I have made shot shels using speer capsules on a .458 Lott. Itried on cap sule on top with just shot underneath and tried three capsules cramed into the case...this worked reasonably well IF you kept velocity right down (say 700fps)

Try the same charge of powder you would use in a .410 3" shelll and then just stuff as much weight of lead ahead of it as possible. In a .458 Lott you end up with a greater payload going slower than a .410 gives you and a reasonable pattern out to about 5m.

I have tried 8, 9 and 11 shot and settled on 9

Sorry, I was referring to Aust snakes since the original poster is in Aust and so am I.

Good info to know about your snakes.

.

I steered away from the african species as did 500N, due to the two Ganyana mentions. I think they would be would need a greater safety zone around them.

There are lot of myths about the black mamba, maintaining 14mph over long distances to chase down humans, overtaking galloping horses etc etc. I think its more of a case of propensity to strike, being able to move quickly then strike which extends the area of respect you need to give the snake. Would this be correct ganyana?



Karl.

Mambas are prtty common in the matopos where I grew Up and they certainly are not shy and looking to avoid people.

The game scout I lost was at Tabalala game park just on the edge of Bulawayo. He was out on a horse back patrol with another ranger (we used horses alot in the matopos and had a few for patrols at Tabalala)...apparently his horse stood on the snake which reared up and struck. The two were less than 2km from the office and I picked up the dead man's body about 500m from the office- he hadn't lasted 10 minutes. The bite marks were over his right kidney.

Even if the snake had got the venom dirctly into an artery the poison couldn't have killed him that quickly- he died of shock

Two lads who dabled in snakes when I was at University got bitten by mistake when feeding 'pet' mambas. Both survived dispite taking several hours to round up a full course of serum as the hospitals never carried more than 4 ampoules and we had to run around the clinics collects the other 8 needed. - neighter paniced and both knew that nasty sysptoms would start in minutes but death would takes up to 5 hours if untreated....

My Krieghoff Teck boxlock O/U .458 Winchester Magnum double rifle has interchangeable barrels in 20 gauge 3" Magnum and I used to take it out to the gun club and shoot skeet with them. Once I decided to try shooting skeet with the .458 barrels, using .410 shotshells. They worked fine, with no leading, but the fired cases were a total loss, of course. Excellent practice for snap shooting with the double rifle.