The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 505 Gibbs vs 458 LottGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I recent purchased a CZ Safari in 505 Gibbs. A few quick points: I do not hunt, just like large calibers, and I do not reload- for now. It seems the factory ammo ballistics for both rounds are very similar. The 505 uses 525 gr bullets at 2300 fps. The 458 uses 500 gr at 2300 fps. My 505 ammo hasn't arrived yet so I have never seen an actual round. Is it a step up from the Lott, or is it just the same ballistics with a bigger hole? | ||
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Welcome to AR Scorpulus  You answered your question. The .505 is a step up because it is the same ballistics with a bigger hole. | |||
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Phil Shoemaker has both a 505 Gibbs and a 458 Win mag and uses them constantly. He openly admits that the 505 hits with more authority but the 458 is nicer to shoot and even in the case of the Lott, will cost you far less than the 505. "I can't be over gunned because the animal can't be over dead"-Elmer Keith | |||
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...Lott 500gr bullet @ 2300fps yields a Taylor KO value of 75. Whereas the Gibbs with a 525gr bullet @ 2300fps yields a Taylor KO value of 87. FWIW | |||
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I have both. The Lott seems to be the most practical to hunt with but then that isn’t the requirement. It hits hard and has enough power for any situation. The 505 is a true big-bore to me. Not quite the range and harder to stay proficient with. The factory 525 gr load is OK but when loaded with modern 600 gr bullets at 2200 FPS, it is a step up from the Lott. Lastly I can’t imagine shooting big rifles and not loading. Factory 505 ammo is just too expensive. Marshall Jones | |||
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from about a year ago, check my posts on 505 Gibbs. I had the privilege of doing some load work on a friend's 505 Gibbs. I was able to shoot a 650gr GC cast bullet to nearly 2300fps, and immediately got sub-2" groups at 50yds using an aimpoint. Make friends with someone who reloads AND casts bullets and you can shoot the Gibbs with factory equivalent loads for about fifty-cents a shot. Another thing, you can always load it DOWN! to 458 Lott specs. I had a Lott, and sold it to purchase a 416 Rigby, the two make for all the battery you would ever need to hunt the world. Quality cast bullet loads let you work the 505 from 458WM recoil levels up in easy steps. Ditto for the 416. I have a 350gr GC mould that I can load down to 1800fps or up to 24-2500fps and lets me shoot both rifles 20-30 rounds each week. Rich DRSS | |||
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I have both, and have developed loads for both. Just look at the case capacity. The 505 is light years ahead of the Lott. If you handload, you can get 2400 fps with a woodleigh 600 gr bullet EASY, no signs of pressure using 140 gr of IMR 7828. Using slower powders (WC 872) I have obtained 2500fps+, bt the recoil is prohibitive. The Lott has limited case capacity, but is a more efficient round. Do get a couple of crossbolts for your CZ; my stock cracked after about 50 rounds | |||
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DITTO!..Also,like above post,light years ahead!...That being said,Dead is dead! A Lott will do the job,no problemo(with less presure)..but the Gibbs with bigger bullets and bigger hole,well,that says it all...
"That's not a knife..THIS is a KNIFE" ! | |||
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Indlovu and Safari Kid, not to hijack the thread, but have either of you played with WCC860 or this new 7383 surplus that is out? I hope it might work, since McDonalds has it for $24 for a seven pound container. Just that little tightwad facet of my personality shining thru. Rich DRSS | |||
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I have a Lott and I have shot the 505 Gibbs. The Gibbs with the 525/2300 load is not much worse than the Lott, but will recoil more because of the needed increase in powder charge.(larger case= >powder) With the Gibbs @ 600/2400 it is far ahead of the Lott. My recovery time, second shot, is way behind what I can do with my Lott. I would rather have the Lott in a sticky situation than the hot loaded Gibbs. That said, the Gibbs loaded @ 600/2200 should balancee out to a manageable load. Keith IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!! ------------------------------------ We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club | |||
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Hog Killer: I was wondering, why did you decide to go with a 600 grain bullet in your Gibbs? I know most guys who buy the Gibbs ignore the standard load of a 525 grain bullet at 2300 fps. and go with a 570 grain or heavier bullet. Same with most guys with the .500 Jeffery. I have the Jeffery and I think the standard load of a 535 grain bullet at 2400 fps. will kill anything on the face of the planet and never thought about going to a heavier bullet. In fact, I load mine down a bit. As you said, the 525/2300 load is not much worse than the Lott. Dave Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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The selection of bullets in 505 is somewhat limited; the heaviest bullet available is 600 gr woodleigh. Too bad they dont make a 700 grain bullet! The caliber certainly has the case capacity to drive it @> 2100 fps. For hunting, I load the woodleigh 600 @2100 FPS using Reloader 15; For softs, you will get more penetration with a heavy, slower bullet, as it is slower to expand. Recoil is same as 535@2300. For solids, I use GS Custom 500 gr @ 2400 fps. These Solids penetrate more at higher velocities, because of the "supercavitation" effect. In fact, these have the most awesome penetration. In 2005, I shot a bull elephant @ 10 yards in the heart; got full penetration! My PH was using a 458 Lott, loaded hot with PMC solids. He fired as the elephant turned to leave, DID NOT get full penetration.
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Rich, I have not; if memory serves, it is even slower than WC872, a 20 mm powder. I dont think it will work out of a 24 inch barrel. Even with IMR7282 in the Gibbs, I get a huge flash and fireball with heavy loads! Once I figure out how to post pictures, I will post some of the flash!
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Dave, I do not have a Gibbs, I said I have shot a Gibbs with the above loading. If I had a Gibbs, 600gr would be my standard bullet weight.(@2150-2200) With that much case capacity, it just makes scense to up the bullet weight. Keith IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!! ------------------------------------ We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club | |||
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I have shot a couple of buffalo with the 458 Lott and one with a 500 Jefferys (close enough)and observed several shot with a 505.. I could not observe much difference in the effect based on that limited number of bulls, but then again I don't see much difference in the bulls shot with a 375 or any of the big calibers, they take a hit, and if the bullet is properly constructed, and the shot is placed right, they run 40 or 50 yards and die. I get the impression that too many minds are made up on one or two buffalo and that is misleading, based on that I saw a buff hit in the center of his chest with a 300 Wby and he reared up and fell over backwards deader n hell, the shooter decided right there that the 300 Wby with a 220 gr. solid was the buffalo medicine, much the same as the 500 plus boys do..So maybe, maybe not. IMO the cross section is only one element of killing power, but it is an important consideration. I suppose school will always be out on this subject, I go back and fourth... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I have used both the 505 Gibbs and the 458 Win in Tanzania. OK, the 458 Win is not a 458 Lott. But the 505 Gibbs does have a lot more smack and game drop speed than the 458 Win. The Lott is a 458 Winchester with maybe 200 Feet Per Second Speed. What animal will say - "If that bullet had been traveling 200 FPS faster, then I would have stopped. This 200 FPS is the difference in the 308 Win and the 30/06. Also, it is the difference in the 375 H&H and the 375 Weatherby. The 505 Gibbs is, from my experience, a much better game stopper than the 458 caliber, only if the bullet is in the correct place. Sincerely, E Pluribus Unum - where out of many, we will become one. | |||
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Ray, for as long as you've been going back and forth we oughta be arguing black powder vs cordite.  | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 505 Gibbs vs 458 Lott
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