What length and why ??

should I leave my CZ the standard factory length of a tad over 25" ??

I don't like LONG barrels... some do... but if you cut it down too much, you'll loose all the reason to rechamber for a lott.

I like 22" on a 458

jeffe

Jack Lotts original design was 22" for easier handling in the bush. This according to the article written by him for Magnum Magazine years ago. Mine is also 22" for the same reason. I get as much power from this barrel length as needed with my 22" barrel. I primarily shoot the 450 X bullet at 2300fps+. I have never recovered one inside an animal yet. Penetration and "devistation" have been significent. I see no reason to generate greater power and recoil then this for my work.

Here are a couple photo's from the last few weeks that will show why I haul around the Lott!



Taken just a short distance out side the Kruger park while hunting some plains game. She was hidden completely from view and we just "bumped" into her. The calf was also visible when we each quickly departed opposite directions. This Photo was taken with a 300mm lens so it does appear closer then it was. We were about 60-70 yards away.



This old Bull is now dead. He was a bit to agressive and was a nice trophy too. He just made things easier by coming back to take a last look at us!

[ 07-29-2003, 18:11: Message edited by: JJHACK ]

Me too. 22", 500 gr. 2300 fps. Just a lot handier.

JJHack:

Have you shot an elephant with the 450 Barnes X
bullet?

s

Socrates,

So here is this cow. Where do you place the frontal brain shot?

On any stopping rifle built on a bolt action, the ideal lenth,IMO, is 22", and left a little heavy in conture! In a double stopper no more than 26", and I prefere 24"! A PH friend of mine has a pre 64 Mod 70 .458 Win Mag, that is in a synthetic stock, and has a 19" barrel. He uses it for going into the weeds for follow up, on Buffalo, and Lion. He, like Ray, named the rifle, he calls it "THE BLACK BITCH"!

[ 07-29-2003, 20:42: Message edited by: MacD37 ]

How much velocity would I lose from a 25" to a 22" barrel if I opt for the chop

PC,
I've left my CZ standard and it handles just fine. Interestingly when I chopped my 458WM Zastava's barrel from 24" to 22" I picked up 30fps....go figure??
Cheers...
Con

My 22" 45 Lapua (McGowen barrel 1:12") will shoot the 500 grain Hornady bullets faster than the 25" barrel by CZ will push the 500 grain Barnes RNSP's. Both loads used same charges of RL-15.

The 22" only lost 9fps/inch versus the 25" barrel using the same 350 grain Hornady bullets and same charges of RL-15.

If you use a faster powder like RL-7 or IMR 3031 in a .458 WinMag, shopping the barrel makes little difference at all.

The type of bullet used (same weight bullets of two different makes) has more effect on velocity than a change from 25" to 22", in the .458 bores with fast to medium powders.

22" just makes more sense on a .458 WinMag, .458 Lott, or 45 Lapua.

I kind of like 23" and 25" barrels just to be different from the usual 22", 24", or 26".

The slower the powder, the smaller the bore, the lesser the expansion ratio of the cartridge, the more velocity you lose with each inch.

An across the board rule of thumb for the medium bores is 1% of MV per inch change, in the 22" to 26" barrel length range. Less than 0.5% loss with a .458 WM/Lott.

Will:
I'd try and scare her off. Don't go much for shooting mom with baby.

http://www.cybertorpedo.com/africanhunter/huntersguide/elephant_part01_04.htm

s

Folks all my other cz's are 25" and if I chop the lott to 22" will it handle much different do you feel ??

My 9.3 cz will have a 23" barrel (still waiting )

My 450 Ackley has a 26 inch barrel.-Rob

I think that any rifle that is to be shot off hand should have a 26" barrel, my original 404 had 27" barrel and I loved that gun off hand...I see no advantage to circumcision or a rifle.. That extra 4 to 6 inches has a lot to offer, and I see no downside to it, my pocket knife is that long...Daniel Boone and the Mt. Men knew a thing or five about long barrels, as did the early Africans and their bolt guns...

I did some testing one time on a 458 Lott...I started at 26" with a max load that got 2533 FPS with a cup full of IMR-4320, then I cut the barrel down one inch at a time to 22" (customers requested length) same load got 2355 FPS...I was amazed, but the chronograph has a way of amazing me on a pretty regular basis, mostly it works in the opposite direction...Now that is a one gun test, with one barrel and could vari with a slower barrel but the end results would be about the same, just different numbers, I'd bet.....

To those who just like a short tube, that's the only real reason to have one and a good legitimate reason, but the lame justifications I hear from time to time are a bit off center IMO!

Hu Guys:

I agree with Ray on this one. I sort of like longer barrels. My new 458 Lott is 24 inches with the break, about 22 1/2 with out the break. But I know the break will always be on.

I never really saw the difference between the 26in and 22in in the bush as far as catching on brush and such.

My RUM is a 26 in barrel, and sometimes I like that blast as far away from my kisser as possible. KABOOM.... 458 at 20 inches... duh no thanks.... LOL

Regards..

Jim P.

I suppose in the schem of things 3" shorter will not make much difference. I might as well pocket the money the barrel chop would cost and buy more bullets, I will think on this a little more

[ 07-31-2003, 15:58: Message edited by: PC ]

Craigh Haman carries a pre 64 action 458 Lott with a 20" bbl almost 1" in diameter. It puts the weight right in your hand and is very steady. Weighs about 11#. He uses it as a stopper when clients miss.

My .450 Ackley has a 27" with the muzzle break

The comments regarding barrel length may be more relevent to the height and arm length of the shooter and the area hunted in. If your over 6' tall I doubt a 24-26" barrel is going to matter as much when compared to your height. However if your 5'10" or shorter then the barrel length does become a bigger issue. I'm 5' 10" tall and the 24" barrel while hunting in the thick bush of Natal on when I worked in SE Alaska guiding for brownies was a burden to me. I don't know any PH's with a 458 win or lott that have one over 24" and I only know one with a 24" gun. All the others have shortened them to 20 or 22". One in particular has a 20" barrel but has a 2" blast enhancer on it. So his barrel is actually only 18"! This is a Zim born and raised PH who has 20 years hunting the big five and he's still here doing his thing. Something must be going well for him and this gun!

As that old car commercial said " this ain't your daddys car" well this ain't your daddys black powder muzzle loader either. Today the powder and bullets available make great use of shorter barrels. I know the "hoopla" about that magic 2400fps velocity with a 500 grain bullet. who cares? With the bullets available today a monolithic bullet does things no lead core bullet could even dream of in the past.

It comes down to this for me and your mileage may vary. Mike Lagrange who has killed more big game then anyone alive today including well over 6000 elephants chooses to use a 458 win mag with 500 grain bullets. We all know that it's not gonna get the "2400fps" so many people rave about. So why does he choose such a pathetic cartridge that all the arm chair experts on sites like this think is aweful? Because it works and has worked for him to kill more elephants then every member of this web sight combined!

Jack Lott developed the cartridge we are talking about. He also had a fair amount of experience with guns and ammunition. Even though I doubt he used the fantastic monolithic bullets available today. His own personal rifle had a 22" barrel by his own design. If that length was good enough for him with the bullets he had then, why would it be less functional now with the much better projectiles( and powders) we have today?

I still think your height and Arm length has quite a lot to do with your guns over all length, and comfort to you. If over 6' a 24" barrel should be quite easy to deal with. If as I am 5'10" tall the 22" barrel is plenty and you won't lose any needed power based on Mike Lagranges experience with a simple 458 win mag!

Thanks for all the opinions.

Just one question if I opt for the chop, can the front sights cz magnums be refitted to the shorter barrel after a hair cut or are they integral.

Good question, PC. It looks integral on the front ramp, but I am not sure. ??? Thin band though, eh? Either integral or soldered so expertly that I can't tell. The rear sight base island is definitely integral, and beautiful as is. Doesn't stink at all.

I have a take-off 300 Win Barrel from the rifle that got rebarreled to .338 Lapua, so I might just have to take a torch to it to see.

Even if it is integral, it could be drilled out after cutting it off the barrel, then expanded a bit if needed to install at the 22" location, by a competent smith, I guess. A replacement bead might be required, or maybe not, have to shoot to see, you never know, might get lucky with change of chambering and barrel length affecting harmonics.

I have not done this but may be doing so soon, to preserve the charming CZ front ramp and windowed hood of a castoff barrel.

Sumbuddy who know?

I like a long barrel, but I think my lott is about 25" including the brake.

Daga, in the instruction manual for the 550 magnums it gives the impression it is not integral

These CZ magnums are truly a work of Art IMHO

500, I think I will elave my lott at 25" really in the schem of things 3" is neither here nor there, I might be glad of that 3" in my .458 Lott any ways

Mine is the factory 24" barrel from Winchester.

[ 08-03-2003, 17:05: Message edited by: Longbob ]

PC,
You are right. I had never paid any attention to that detail before. So you have answered your own question.

The banded front ramp is not integral, but it is fit so well that the thin band must be force fit on the barrel or brazed/soldered with a very clean fit and finish. No screws hold the front sight banded ramp to the barrel. Another marvelous CZ detail, to go with the integral rear sight base.

I left my CZ 550 Lott conversion as is with the 25" factory barrel. It gives about 2240 fps with the Hornady solid bullet 500 grain factory loads. Switching to a slightly taller front sight bead was required to get mine to shoot right on at 50 and 100 yards with the 100 meter standing leaf of the factory sight. I glass bedded the beautiful hogback and polished the feed ramp and rail edges, and mine functions perfectly. An Uncle Mike's 16 guage shotgun barrel band sling base was the finishing touch on this rifle (JB Welded/epoxied in place, though Loc Tite will probably do), hailed last year as the "DaggaRifle," back when DagaRon was still DaggaRon.

Hey, the "DaggaRifle" is an excellent tool, worldwide capable and inexpensive. If the blackhole of Africa swallows it in transit, build another one.

Who doesn't adore the CZ 550 Magnum .458 Lott conversion:

The fawning elitist sycophants (girlie-boy name droppers) and businessmen/hucksters looking to separate the hunter from more of his cash (money grubbers).

I also have various other factory and custom big bores that tend to have the longer barrel lengths:

23" BRNO ZKK 602 510 JAB/500 A2, McGowen barrel.
25" BBK-02 470 Mbogo, Pac Nor barrel.
24" Ruger No.1 in .458 Lott, factory barrel.
24" Interarms Mark X in .458 Lott, factory barrel.
26" Winchester Super Express 470 Capstick with McGowen barrel.
26" Ruger M77 MkII .416 Taylor with Shilen barrel.
22" CZ 550, 45 Lapua, McGowen barrel.
25" CZ 550, 45 Lapua, Factory barrel.
etc. ...

You can see that over the last 25 years I have tended to the longer barrels, and I rue the day I ever cut anything less than 22" on a bolt action. Anything between 22" and 26" is fine, depending on the cartridge.

The Lott can handle it anywhere between 22" and 26". Outside of those parameters and it gets goofy, IMHO.

[ 08-03-2003, 17:33: Message edited by: DagaRon ]

Daggaron,

when adding a barrel band you would have removed the sling swivel from the forened from the stock. My silly question how did you tastefully fil in the hole left by the forened sling swivel ??

I might add a barrel band to mine

PC,
On one fastidious job, the .338 Lapua rebarrel, the gunsmith cut plugs of walnut and filled the larger hole that the escutcheon for the recoil lug screw went in on the forearm, as well as the sling base screw. The larger plug required checkering to match the forearm pattern, the other was sanded smooth and refinished with the stock. Quite tasteful.

For the "DaggaRifles" I either ... find a nicely blued smooth flat/oval headed wood screw and cut it off short and screw it into the hole, near flush, then remove it and resink with epoxy to make it permanent ...

... Or, I simply fill the hole with quick setting clear epoxy, to within 1/16" to 1/8" of flush, then I let it harden and color the surface with a black Sharpie permanent marker, then finish filling the hole with more clear epoxy, painted on or poured in as needed. It looks O.K., like a black dot, smooth and flush ...

Or get some Acraglass with the brown stain, or Microbed, if they still make it, and fill with brown epoxy ...

... with masking tape protecting the stock around the hole, a round cutout. O.K., with me.

Some elitist sycophants might frown upon these techniques, but the latter ones avoid refinishing a stock. Take your pick, or just leave the hole agape.

Cheers!

Thanks Daga,

I might opt for the screw filed flat I think it would look kind of alright. I think I defintely want a barrel band on. Do thye have to remove thr front sight to get the barrel band on or is it split and then soldered at the split ??

Thanks for your help.

I will most likely leave at 25" but I may change my mind tomorrow

Looking forward to getting my dies and brass in the mail form Grafs, and hopefully my 9.3x62 lux cz will show up, so I have a lot to look forward to in the coming days as far as my hobby go's

Hey PC ,who are you getting to do the rechamber job. When I pick my new(second hand) 458 ,I will be getting it rechambered straight away to a Lott as well. Do you know which length chamber reamer the gunsmith has?

CR500,

I will be getting Bob D'Vries of Kudu Services to do it. I wish to have the 2.85" chamber rather than the 2.80 but when my cases arrive I will measure them first. Waiting on the cz 550 to arrive. Bobs work is first rate.

Dies and Brass from Grafs in Mexico, it should be here any day I ordered Monday week ago. What rifle are you doing your Lott on CR ??

I am thinking of getting a pack of 550 gr woodleighs as they will be very long and I want to seat them to the cannelure and get Bob Toensure there will be enough freebore in the chamber to handle the 550 woodleigh's should I ever wish to use them though I will use the lott with 500's as the heavy load, but I want it to be able to handle them all the same.