500,
Man o man, am I glad you came along, all these years I thought the 450-400 did a great job on the elephants, Buffalos and Lions that I have shot with it, thanks for the wake up call!I'll be sure and retire it from use before I get stomped, clawed or mangled...Its a good thang we have an internet and all the good advise that comes out of it...whew! I've been saved again!......Its now a wall hanger, bless you...

Nice, clean Holland in a great caliber. Hallowell's says the bores are perfect, action on face and wood sound. If that description is on the level, then it is a well cared for rifle showing honest, cosmetic wear. It would sure make a nice safari rifle. You wouldn't have to worry about the finish and the Dominion backlocks are known for durability.

Given the needed cosmetics, the price isn't a steal but it certainly isn't over the top. Westley Richards has a .375 2 1/2" Flanged Dominion(less desirable caliber than 500/.450) on their site in what appears to be nice shape with good cosmetics. IIRC, the price was $18,750 (it is marked "sold" and the price is no longer listed). Champlin Currently has one of the most stunning Dominions I've ever seen - an original .470 (more economically desirable caliber than .500/.450) with fantastic wood and nice engraving, which is unusual on a Dominion (the Dominion was intended to be a "best" quality gun but finished plain for hard service), in new condition for $25,750.

So, this rifle is "ratty", in "questionable condition" and "a heap" just because it needs to be refinished? What a howl! Bad example, 500. You need to stop removing doubt, old buddy.
-----------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Hey 500, please point me to all the bargin 450/400s you find, and are afraid to use on Buffalo, or anything else for that matter!

when a spanking new searcy can be had for 9500 bucks, yeah, this is a heap.

i'ld have this one.. but i place a different value on doubles than collectors do... for 20K, i would be afriad to fly with it, even insured.

jeffe

500,
Gosh I don't know they all ran off licking their wounds!

I just didn't know why until you educated me!, thanks for that..Next time I'll use a 600 N.E., that should work.

500 grains,
I too, would like to join with Ray and thank you for letting me know that my 450/400 3 inch won't kill elk sized game much less buffalo! Whew!

I have forwared this thread to other 450/400 shooter I know. I have emailed Criag Boddington and told him to remove his references to the 450/400 from his book "Safari Rifles", because you don't think it's any good!

I'll have to tell Mark Selby to put away that 450/400 he carried for years. The one that has the inscription. ..
"To Mark from your uncle Bob". We all know Ruark didn't know what he was doing!

I only wish I had read this thread before this past weekend!

Now I have to go tell the eland!

If only you could have been with us last weekend. We had 5 ratty old English double rifles in camp and only 3 underprivileged old working stiff white guys to shoot them!

Now I haven't shot any buffalo with my 450/400 so I can't testify to how they react. How do they react to your 500?

I wonder what the price of a new Searcy with Copper Lumps and hand detachable sidelocks and 26" barrels would be? Naw, it's would turn out to be just another ratty old Searcy some day.

OK, Ray, sorry if you didn't appreciate it when I poked fun at one of your favorite caliber.



Can I conclude you have NOT shot elephant with the 450/400? I want to know whether to ingest a few grains of salt to go with your previous post. Thanks.

500 grains,
Thanks, for letting us know you were poking fun!

500 grs.
All in fun with happy faces...I know there are better calibers to shoot elephant with, but the 450-400 has as much penitration as any big bore and more than most..I have shot many Buffalo with that caliber, at least 25 I suspect maybe more...I have shot one elephant cow that was wounded with it and it went completely through her head albiet it missed the brain by an inch or two and the next shot went into both lungs..She went another 50 yards with everybody shooting at her....I also brain shot another cow with good tusks, also previously shot in the shoulder with a 458 Win. I shot her with the 404 using the old kynoch loading of 2100 FPS and that equates to a 450-400 and it dumped her...I shot a 75 lb bull with the 450-400-3" and he went stright down. That is the only elephant that I have shot without backing someone elses play so I am not an expert on elephant, no-one is these days except for a precious few that have lived long enough to tell about it.. His tusks adorn my big buffalo...

John Taylor had a pair of them, Selous had a pair of them, my good friend Mark Selby has used one forever, another PH I know quite well uses a 10.75x68 on elephant and everything else and swears by it and so it goes that proper bullet placement with any caliber capable of penitration will kill animals...

But I ordered a .470 from Butch because I knew you would be proud of me! It arrived at Brockmans today btw...now I have to sell my wonderfull 450-400-3.25" and that makes me sad.

Ray, now that you fessed up to all those risky adventures with the 450-400, I doubt any life insurance company will issue you a policy again!



I am curious about the head shot that narrowly missed the brain. Could you see a visible reaction to the shot?



As to your .470, you are correct that I will feel much more comfortable knowing that you have some real firepower in your hands. Bridger has built me some special .510 solids for my searcy that have a giant flat, sharp-edged meplat and protrude into the case just exactly the same amount as a Woodleigh. They regulate absolutely perfectly and are the most accurate bullet in my rifle. I bet he could do the same thing for the .470, or he could design them so that they stick into the case a little more and eliminate the need for a filler.

Oh absolutly, I saw a reaction, she got twice as pissed as she was before the shot!! but the good guys shot her down in roar of gunfire...

I saw a 505 wack an elephant in the head front on and it didn't phase that old boy...The first bull ever shot with the new 700 N.E. was a head shot and the elephant was never recovered, so ya still gotta stick'em right...