Good day gentlemen,
I have been concidering building an Elk rifle based around either a Ruger or Remington re-chambered for 376 Steyr... Here is where my hesitation comes in....

The most "power" ive used/needed was full-house 300WM hand loads(200gr@about 2700-2800fps), which I will admit thumps me after a while at the bench. I am a small man, built more like a teen (im 5'6" and a solid 150lbs...). So i am hesatant to advance into a larger caliber..
In the field I honestally dont notice the recoil of the 300mag, but after about 30 rounds at the bench I am definately getting sensative.

I know the 376 wont have the "super flat" trajectory most people are seeking, but honestally...I have never shot an Elk (or a deer for that matter) beyond 250-300yrds and I might be exagerating with that esstimate (things in the mountains look so close yet so far away..haha) ... Its about time I ventured from the old '06 and the 300mag (im working on a 300WSM for my general purpose rifle since hand loads should duplicate anything from 308 to a light 300mag) and I would like fatty cartridge for Elk..espically one that i can actually buy factory loads should I not be able to build up a wildcat some day (which is the reason I havnet jumped into a 375Scoville, 411Hawk or a Heavy Express Mag yet).

Does anyone have any thoughts on the 376, and expierence with it.. would the recoil be substantial enough to warrent a muzzle break or maby to just over look that option all togeter? There is NO information on the internet about the round being used domestically in a full sized rifle, and frankly, I think the Steyr Scout and ProHunter are some of the most ugly excuses for a rifle Ive ever seen! (sorry if you like the rifles.. to each their own!)Plus, Id rather have a 24" barrel, an action that is easily maintained (tons of aftermarket parts and gunsmiths for remingtons and rugers)...rifles that look like they come from some Sci-Fi movie just dont do a damn thing for me.. so the Steyr rifles are out!...
anyway... its a pleasure to be hear and read your thoughts and expierences.. and thanks for letting me ramble...

Entheogen,

If you can handle the 300 magnum OK you will be OK with the 376 Steyr, 338 Win or 375 H&H.

But if buying factory ammo is an issue for you, I think I would consider either the 338 Win or 375 H&H rather than the 376 Steyr.

Mike

Ent - Recoil from shooting off a bench and recoil felt in the field where your body is much more free to "recoil with the punch" are indeed two different animals! One of the worst recoil beatings I ever took was trying to help a friend sight-in a 30/06 for elk hunting.


I don't have any first hand experience with the cartridge you are interested in but it sounds like it should be OK as an elk rifle. Of course your 30/06 and you 300 mag are both fine also. My question is why by a THIRD rifle to do what the first two will do a good job of also? Unless you are just intrigued by this cartridge, i.e. gotta have it. (I understand the craving that can strike us all without warning )

Anyway, I'm wondering if what you need isn't a different rifle but rather a little special padding on a shooting jacket or something? FOR SURE you should use some serious padding when you have to go shoot off the bench!

Being "recoil sensitive" has nothing to do with manhood or any stupid thing like this. Often there are some good medical reasons for a person being recoil sensitive. Years ago I developed a bone spur in my right shoulder and shooting big rifles hurt so bad it would bring tears to my eyes. Today I've got a bad disk in my neck that aches after shooting big bore rifles. You may have some such physiological issue going here as well. If so, the last thing you need is a rifle that puts out MORE recoil.

You might need to go DOWN rather than up the scale. Remember, well placed bullets are easily more deadly and effective than just cranking up the muzzle energy. Good hunting.

[ 09-15-2002, 04:52: Message edited by: Pecos45 ]

Recoil in the field is just about unnoticeable, as you and others have noted, at least until later, when a black/blue shoulder shows up. Shot at a turkey a few times one day with 3"/1-7/8oz loads in a 7# shotgun one time - man, what a Technicolor shoulder I had for about a week!
Got the turkey though

I shoot a fair amount from the bench, and one of the worst things you can do is allow recoil to affect you, otherwise you're only building a better flinch. Some guys seem to be immune to recoil, but, I'm not one of them. When working on loads for the heavy recoilers, I use two of the Past pads, one on top of the other, with a jacket or something, between the pads. I've done 40 300 W'bys and 40 338 WMags, accurately, in the same session that way. That 376 shouldn't be any worse than they are, I don't think. Another help is to be sure your shooting position has you as upright as possible, not leaning "into" the gun, allowing you to roll with the recoil.

Obviously, ear protection (eye too, for that matter) is a must, since loud noise leads to greater perceived recoil.

I shoot about six months out of the year, and, one of the things I do religiously each autumn, as shooting season approaches, is to shoot nothing heavier than a 22 Mag for at least the first few hundred rounds, to get the "feel" back again.

R-WEST

Thanks for your input...
I dont concider my self as "recoil sensative".. since I can take a good beating (better than alot of the guys I shoot with... my brother who is about twice my size shot three rounds of my hand loaded 300mags and set the rifle down and walked away ...never shot it again ...) I am however small, and I know this.. Life some times deals us a very unfair hand, Im a little fella, who adores big bores!! One of my favorite rifles ever was a old ruger in 358win I bought at a pawn shop for about $200.. I selected my current rifles for the reason that I was starting a family and I needed more money and time than I was able to afford.. so the 06 and the 300mag made alot of sence.. cheap ammo.. readily available ammo and componet parts.. reloading was a snap, and they basically shoot like twins.. so range time could be kept to a minimum and I still knew where they would shoot from season to season with a brief afternoon at the range... it was a low mantience decision. I admit i LOVE my '06, I will just take it out and shoot holes in drift wood all day and have as much fun a boy with is first red rider bb gun.. I have had them for about 8 years now and its just time to finally get back into guns ..where my heart is.. and honestally.. there has been so much change in the last 5yrs I am like a kid in a candy store!
Ive allways wanted a big bore.. and the offerings of the H&H and the 458Win just didnt make sence... Now I have the 376 and 450 marlin to choose from and to keep the rifle practicle .. the 376 would be a better option.. as long as I didnt mind shooting it...
I have shot a co-hunters 338win and it has one hell of a sharp "whack!".. definatelly more than my 300..... but ive heard that the larger (375 and up) have more of a "shove" than a shapr kick.. I could handle being shoved to the ground if need be ... but kicked off my feet like a rag doll would not be somthig Id enjoy..haha.. thanks again for your input however.. Ill keep searching..

I'm not afraid of recoil (I don't flinch), but I don't care for it either. I try to find ways to reduce it by adding a heavier barrel (if it needs to be replaced) and mercury recoil reducers. I cannot stand muzzle brakes. A couple of my rifles have them and if I ever replace the barrels, off they will come.

So far I have added mercury recoil reducers to my son's 7-08 Winchester Classic Compact, 30-06 Winchester Supergrade, and 458 Lott Winchester Custom Shop Safari Grade. All three rifles show a noticeable reduction in recoil and greatly improved balance. The 7-08 & 30-06 have had the barrels replaced with a slightly heavier contour than the factory and the Lott is just a big dang barrel!

These are the 3/4" x 5", 11 oz tubes. My Lott now weighs approximately 11 lbs with the 2.5 x Leupold Compact. As you can see, I like weight. However, I have a Weatherby Ultra Lite in a 270 Winchester that is a great shooter. This is my light gun and will not change it. Consider adding a recoil reducer. You may like the way it handles even better.

[ 09-14-2002, 21:47: Message edited by: Longbob ]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Entheogen
Hi Entheogen,
I would go with the reference to the 338 Winchester. The cartridge is a much more practical choice and will more than do the job. If the 338 you tried was one of the synthetic stocked Rugers with the recesses in the stock and the rock of a pad it's no wonder you didn't like it. Being small and light is actually an advantage for shooting big bores as it will move you with the recoil. I have a friend about the same size that can shoot my 500 A-Square just fine. Go with the 338 and put on a good recoil pad. You could put a small Pachmayer triple X pad on the rifle and it will shoot softer than your 300 Win Mag. This would really open your options.
470 Mbogo

Entheogen,

Whenever I shoot my .376 Steyr I notice what a pussycat it is for recoil, much less than my .375H&Hs.

I notice too that smaller shooters handle recoil better than larger shooters -- who tend to get punched by the rifle instead of moving with it.

jim dodd

Entheogen, your email address is in the UK but you post shows you as in UT, which means Utah to us Yanks.

My question, are you talking about European "Elk", which are Moose to us?

Or are you talking about American Wapiti, commonly called Elk?

Here in the US the 338 Win Mag is a highly favored Elk cartridge and can be safely loaded down to 175 grain bullets.

And, with the proper bullet, there is nothing wrong with a 300 Win Mag or a 300 WSM for Elk. It is not the cartridge size, but the bullet placement that kills the animals.

As I am a custom rifle builder, I have a lot of contacts within the firearms industry. The common consensus is the 376 Steyr is a dying cartridge and will not be around too much longer.

If I were hunting European Elk, the cartridge would be the 9.3x62.

Recoil is a relative thing. Shooting from a bench is the worst case situation, as your body cannot move with the recoil. You should sight in from the bench, using a Past Magnum Recoil Pad on your shoulder, then practice field shooting from standing position. After all, you will not find a bench in Elk Country!

I work with large caliber rifles with considerable recoil (458 Lott, 450 Dakota, 460 Wea, 500 Jefffery, etc) and I use a stand up bench (looks like a tall padded sawhorse) when regulating sights.

Another thing to do when shooting from the bench is to wear a thick coat. I sometimes wear a Carhart jacket that has thick lining, it really makes a difference when shooting high recoil rifles. Just a T-shirt is a no-no with a lot of recoil.

Ooops

[ 09-15-2002, 04:51: Message edited by: Pecos45 ]

Ent - Let me follow up with these thoughts. After reading you additional comments I think the truth is coming out. You just want another rifle and the recoil thing is a red herring!

Well, you're among friends here. You don't have to shuck and jive us. Save the recoil talk for the little woman.

I think all the advice give you is sound. I've had surgery on my shoulder for the spur and THAT doesn't hurt me anymore. The disk in the neck is just something I'm gonna have to live with cause I sure as hell don't want any clown playing around my spine.

But the last few years I've developed another problem. My ears! I've always LOVED the big boom and roar of gunfire. I used to go to a particular canyon in my younger days and just sit and shoot my /06 because the acoustics were so neat. Now I'm paying the price.

Gunfire on unprotected ears hurts me worse than recoil! Problem is I HATE wearing things in/on/over my ears! Guess I'm either destined to go completely deaf or else buy a water gun that doesn't make much noise.

Anyway, you mention a muzzle break. Most of the guys on this site hate them, I think, and mainly because most of these breaks really ratchet up the noise.

Anyway, good luck with your new rifle!

[ 09-15-2002, 05:08: Message edited by: Pecos45 ]

i agree with what has been said about recoil here. i am 6'2" and about 160, and rifles of various sizes are not a problem provided they had a proper recoil pad. a win94 30-30 with a steal but plate is painful to me. ever a AR15 with a sharp butt plate bothers me after about 10 rounds when i am in just a t-shirt. a savage 110 in 30-06 i can shoot all day, because of the proper recoil pad.

Who would have guessed.... all the 338 fans in the big bore room... funny how people work out some times and not a single person saying "ya' whimp get a REAL .375...a H&H!" which I expected..haha...any way just to follow up on a couple of things..
John Ricks.. sorry to through you off with the whole email Vs. location thing...I am in the great state of UT and will be hunting the mighty Rocky Mountain Wapiti... I should be so lucky as to go on a moose hunt here or abroad.. but dreams will come! The 338 is a much liked round indeed amoung Elk hunters.. in fact almost everyone I hunt with uses one... I just dont seem to apriciate that round and I cant really justify why. You just know how some caliber/rifle's find a snug place in your heart and some just dont do a damn thing for you?? well thats just how I feel about 338mag..Now, for instance, I HAVE thought about what a wonderful idea it would be to take the 376 steyr case and neck it down to 338 (or even 358) and have a round I have long wanted; an american version of the 8x68mms!! I gave up on that idea since info on wildcats based on the steyr case is non-existant...I did find some reamers for 30/376 but that brings us back to where the 300mag/300WSM's are so it would just be redundant..I really cant understand why americans have to have the name "magnum" affixed to a cartridge before it passes the mustard? The 8x68mmS will beat out the 300mag's and nip at the heels of the 338's in a non-belted very stream line "traditional" case...a true MAGNUM b all respects .. the problem of course is brass cost is as much and more than alot of loaded ammo for other similar rifles...
Sorry got side track'd there.. but alas.. I just dont have a place in my heart for the 338mag... all i need is a round with great penetration, and a reasonable trajectory (i limit most of my shooting in the field to >300yrd.. not because im incompetant, but just the opposite, I KNOW where my skills lie and dont feel its responsible for me to shoot at a living creature beyond that.. like I mentioned earlier, I doubt ive ever had to shoot 300 as it is... )There are a great number of rounds that will punch through an Elk at 250yds with out concidering the magnums.. and its already been stated that its not the round that makes the animal drop, but where the hunter places the bullet...Im giving some thought to the 338-06 A Square and even the old 35Whelen both rounds have a nice ring to them and both fit in a "normal length" and normal weight rifle which brings me to the issue of "just make the rifle heavy".

Humping through the Rocky Mtns for a week at a time with a pack that already aproaches 35-40lbs is hard enough at times.. a 10-11 lbs rifle is just a joke (and not a funny one at that).. true, we ride the ATV's to a point... then you get off and let your feet carry you several miles before the hunt is done.. my 300WM is just under 8lbs and I definately notice it by the end of each day.. the addition of a few OZ is one thing, but building a rifle that 2lbs heavery is not an option.

Pecos45, its true that i just want another rifle.. I stated that .. Im not trying to justify the "need" for somthing bigger and better than the 300mag... just somthing new! Its been a long time comming since I bought a new rifle (hell a new anything for that matter.. except for diapers, clothes, books.. ect...)and Im all giddy like a school girl with some the the offerings that were not available when I disappeared for the hunts just a few years ago... IF i was rich, I would have Model Seven based around the 300WSM; a 450 Marlin built on a ruger action (preferably around an Express Rifle) and probably a nice Mauser98 vriant in 376 styer ..... just for the hell of it... but I have to go one rifle at a time, Im already working on the Model Seven option... Ive long loved those little guns, and now that i can get one to perform like a hot '06 or a factory loaded 300mag.. its on the top of my list. Realistically, I could do my ELK and deer with that same rifle... but where is the fun in that!
Like I said earlier.. the only bore Ive had alot of expierence with is the .30's ... i did own a 358win.. but thats just a little popper ..the 35Whelens ive shot were tolerable the 338s were big, heavy, shit loads of blast and jarred out a filling or two...maby it was the hand loads, maby it was the style of rifle ( actually they were Browning and Remingtons.. but I can see how that stock Ruger put out would be a real pain, hell its not even comfortable to hold in the show room!) So I am a little skepticle about weather the 376 calibers would be "enjoyable" to shoot.. Im sure I could shoot them well... Im not afraid of my rifles.. but the real question is "is it somthing that I would enjoy"....
Thanks to all the input here I really apriciate the response i've gotten... as a newbie to the forums here it was a very warm welcome.

Having read through all the posts, I believe .470 Mbogo has the best advice, though I would raid his recommendation to use the thickest, mushiest Pachmayr recoil pad (model F990?), and with some high altitude hilly walking a concern, also suggest a synthetic stock. The idea would be to save weight on the stock and add it back in the recoil pad where it can do some real good.

If you haven't used a real recoil pad, you don't know what popguns some of the medium sized cartridges really are. You can do this on a trial basis by using one of the (cheap!) slip-on recoil pads off a bench at the range. The F990 is almost as good as bubble wrap. No corners, no hard spots, just like a marshmallow...

I just thought I'd share my latest observations on Recoil vs gun weight vs hitting your target.
In Zimbabwe three weeks ago I had the pleasure of tracking Buffalo for six hours on foot. I deceided to carry a old style Ruger Mk11 .416 Rigby that weights about 11 lbs with the heavy barrel, self installed muzzel brake, triple X pad and Swarovski scope. Recoil is not a prolem at 2500fps and a .410 gr bullet, however, gun weight sure beats you down with time, heat and exertion, but there is a price to be payed. My biggest suprise came when stone tired I had to make a 60 yrd shot at a buff with my heart pounding after running the last 200 yrds. You know what? That heavy gun settled down in my arms like no light weight rifle ever would and I made the shot perfectly. It's not wise to screw-up on a Buff, I'm told! John Taylor wrote of the stabilizing effect of a heavy gun on a tired shooter and boy was he right. There is probably a relationship for all shooters of truly portable gun weight versus accuracy. With that said, I would suggest you buy a good reasonably heavy .375 H&H and see how you shoot it after you've run a 1/4 mile. Whatever gun you shoot best this way is the gun to use.
FWIW- I don't believe that there is still hope while there is lead in the air!-Rob