I know this question has been asked and answered before, but I could not find the discussion.

The other day I was telling a friend I was thinking about buying a 470 NE double rifle. He asked why they don't make double rifles in the more popular calibers (416, 458, etc...) I remembered reading here on AR that it is because of the high pressure these rounds generate, but I could not remember the specifics.

Does anyone know which discussion gave this information, or know the specifics?

Thanks

Not an expert, but maybe I can give you some thoughts.
While pressure enters into the equation, the other reason is that most "traditional" double calibers are rimmed cartridge. A rimmed cartridge is less likely to have extraction problems.

An excellent reference is "Shooting The British Double" by Graeme Wright. Not only does it give some history, it is very helpful in load development.

The original purpose for a double rifle in my opine, was to provide two large caliber rounds, at close ranges against dangerous game at relatively low pressure in tropical heat.
The rounds were flanged to insure extraction/ejection.

By the nature of it's design the double rifle action is much weaker than a bolt action rifle.
Pressure and bolt thrust need to be considered.

That being said, you can have your double today built in just about any caliber you can dream up.

I am one of the traditionalist, who believes a double rifle chambering, whenever possible, should be composed of two elements. A flanged case and the phrase "Nitro Express" in the description.

Once again, just my opines.

I've quite a few more O/U guns in .458 Win Mag and the like than true doubles. Are the O/U guns better for higher pressures?

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
The other day I was telling a friend I was thinking about buying a 470 NE double rifle. He asked why they don't make double rifles in the more popular calibers (416, 458, etc...) I remembered reading here on AR that it is because of the high pressure these rounds generate, but I could not remember the specifics.

Lhook7

Not an expect, but for large calibre double rifles, Side by Side or Under and Over, a longer tapered case gives a lower pressure and back-thrust. Double rifles are not as strong as a bolt action and pressure should be kept at a lower level.

For small and medium calibres while pressure might be up there, back thrust is lesser and less strain on the action. Therefore you do see a lot more modern rimless cartridges in small and medium double rifles.

Many modern makers do make .375 H&H Magnums, .416 Rigbys and .458 Win Mags, and these doubles seem also to fare fair enough. I do not believe Holland & Holland, Westley Richards, Merkel etc etc would make them if they were faulty to a high degree. I couldn't say this from personal experience however.

BUT another aspect is the lesser extractive power of a double rifle vs say a Mauser 98 action. For this reason many double rifle users, especially on dangerous game calibres, strongly prefer a flanged or rimmed case as they extract better in a double rifle.

Thanks for the responses everybody.

I am planning on ordering a 470 NE Searcy before the end of the year, but my career forced me to relocate from Houston to Phoenix a little over a week ago and now I have to buy a new house, so I don't know if I'm going to get my order in before the rumored price increase I have heard about here on AR.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but houses are damned expensive out here.

price increase is 1000$ just let butch know your postition im pretty shoure hell take a little less to hold your spot.

The extra $1K is not as bad as the wait will be if you order after the SCI show in Reno, and the DSC show in Dallas. Butch will fill lots of orders at those two shows, and push you way back in the line, for delivery!

One thing about your move to PHX is, you'll get a lot more walk about hunting there than around Houston. Lots of public land in Arizona, and New Mexico. My sister, and a bunch of her kids live in the PHX area, so I visit there often. Enjoy!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
One thing about your move to PHX is, you'll get a lot more walk about hunting there than around Houston. Lots of public land in Arizona, and New Mexico. My sister, and a bunch of her kids live in the PHX area, so I visit there often. Enjoy!

Yeah, it will be a lot more fun getting ready for my safari by hiking up and down these mountains rather than running in a big cicrle around Memorial Park.

What kind of wait are you talking about?

Butch told me 8-10 months before the shows. Well over a year after the shows. I ordered mine last month

quote:

Originally posted by KINO:
Butch told me 8-10 months before the shows. Well over a year after the shows. I ordered mine last month

Damn! I'm going to have to do some thinking; I do not want to wait that long.

BTW I mentioned in a previous thread Midway has RCBS 470 nitro dies on sale for $199.99 from $244.99. I just bought a set.

quote:

Originally posted by KINO:
BTW I mentioned in a previous thread Midway has RCBS 470 nitro dies on sale for $199.99 from $244.99. I just bought a set.

Thanks for the information, but I don't reload. I have wanted to for a while, but I have too many hobbies as it is; it has gotten to te point that I would either have to give up a hobby or give up my job.

I believe the griffin & Howe gunshop in Bernardsville NJ lists several in 458 on their websire. WWW.griffinhowe.com