The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Is this possible / safe???Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I was told today by someone that it is easy & safe to load a 416 Rigby to shoot 350 grain bullets at 2840 fps. Is this BS or can it be done? If it really can be done, and safely, I am thinking that the 416 Rigby might be the right big bore rifle for me! Thanks, ASS_CLOWN | ||
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Scott, QL says 60,000 psi.... 2700fps more like what *I* would do jeffe | |||
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Quote: Why??  | |||
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jeffeosso, Thanks, for the QL results. What I would really to hear is from someone who has actually done it and lived.  By the way the same gentleman said if you wanted to "push the envelope" you could get ~ 2900 out of the Rigby with a 350 grain pill! Now that is cookin' in my book. Holmes, That is 300 Win mag ballistics! I mean that would make the 416 Rigby the ultimate one rifle battery! ASS_CLOWN | |||
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The rigby will push the 350@2800,pressure maybe alittle high but not danerously so,the 416 rem will push the 350 to 2650,remember the rigby has alot more case capacity.Not need to push them that fast though,I have fired a ruger in 416 rigby with the 400gr hornady@2650,that will get your attention! | |||
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Quote: The only problem with that theory is that it'll slap you silly in the process. While we've learned to handle the recoil of the big bores, I don't think many of us can handle recoil to the extent that would allow us to fire a severe recoiling rifle in a shooting position that would be conductive to accurate long range shooting. 200 yds with a 416 or 458, no problem. Prone for an over 300 yd shot, very few are consistantly that good, unless a specially set up rifle that gives up it's use as a close range dangerous game gun. | |||
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You do know that the .460 WBY with a 350 Hornady easily bests 3000fps don't you? The recoil is rediculosly minimal.I don't think this will be a problem at all.!-Rob | |||
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Robgunbuilder, 3000 fps!!!! WOW!! Do you really think this is possible and safe with a 350 grain pill in the 416 Rigby? If it is the 416 Rigby can easily double the performance of a 300 Win mag! Do you have any load data for a load like this? Paul H, according to Robgunbuilder, and I quote Quote:That was for a 460 Weatherby magnum, so the same must hold true for the 416 Rigby. Therefore, I do not think your concerns about recoil are warranted. The weather forecast is for good weather on Saturday. I will finally get to shoot a big bore then. If that doesn't kill me, and I doubt it will, Sunday I will procure a 416 Rigby. ASS_CLOWN | |||
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AC, I'll admit to having never fired a 350 gr @ 2800-3000 fps out of a 40 or 45 caliber. I do think Rob might just be pulling you leg though In comparison to a 600 OK pushing a 900 gr @ 2400 fps, I have no doubt that the recoil is mild. That said, I'll stick by my guns that laying prone with a rifle rested over a hunting pack, you'll be hard pressed to shoot a hot loaded 40 or 45 caliber precisely enough for long range shots on game.There is a big difference between dealing with recoil and ignoring it. I can deal with the recoil of a big bore and shoot it with sufficient accuracy for field shots to 200 yds. Now, for 300 yards or more, I (and I'll make the broad assumption that most shooters as well) need to be able to ignore recoil for such shots. The only way to be able to ignore the recoil of a 40 or 45 caliber pushing a 350 gr to 2800-3000 fps is to either put a muzzle brake on it, or make it a really heavy gun, both of which are aproaches I will not take on a big bore rifle. You'd also need a larger scope as well. | |||
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Robgunbuilder, I spoke with the gentleman this morning and he gave me the loads. Here they are: 350gr Barnes X bullet for both loads Norma brass Fed 215 primer Barrel length - 25" Load #1 108.1 grains of IMR4350 for 2848 fps Load #2 111.0 grains of IMR4350 for 2907 fps Load #3 102.4 grains of IMR4064 for 2993 fps Load #4 96.2 grains of IMR3031 for 3008 fps He also gave me a new load to try in my 50 Beowulf: 16" barrel carbine 335 grain bullet Fed 215 primer 54 grains of Rel 7 for 1940 fps That 50 Beowulf load beats my best "safe" load by about 150 fps! So are these loads "safe" or is this guy setting me up? Thanks for the help. ASS_CLOWN | |||
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Ok, I'll bite... 25" barrel? That's a CZ, right? 9.25lbs. plus optics? Paul's right, that 350 gr bullet at 2850fps is going to hurt. You can make it work on the bench, pads sandbags between the gun and your shoulder, Lead-Sled, whatever. It's going to beat the shit out of you in the field. 400grs at 2500 is plenty of recoil in my Ruger. 350 at over 2900? Ouch. I won't even guess at the pressure of the 2900fps and up loads. If you want a long range hammer, build one. There is no such thing as a single rifle , one gun does it all. | |||
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Apparantly some of you do not own any reloading manuals, they all show that with a 350 gr. bullet velocties of 2800 to 2950 are easily obtainable... I can come within 100 FPS of about any 416 Rigby load with my 404 Jefferys and its big case...I get a safe and easy 2653 FPS with a 400 gr. bullet in my 27 inch barrel and just a bit less with my 26 inch barrel, so based on that I could feasibly get 2800 FPS with a 350 gr. bullet in the 404 Jefferys if I wanted too, which I don't as recoil becomes a factor and killing power shows me no increase over 2400 FPS with either bullet.. Killing power increases on the big stuff with the cross section of the bullet IMO.... | |||
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Ray, The manuals that show .416 Rigby and Weatherby data show those figures for .416 Weatherby not for the Rigby. I know you can get almost the same velocity for both. In fact, the only manual I have that lists both is Barnes. Hornady, Nosler, and the rest don't list them. I have a Hodgdon manual and it is over 15 years old and it says 2500 and change for the 350gr in the Rigby. The Weatherby data I have seen shows 2850 or so as a max load for the 350gr in the Weatherby, so it's not exactly "easily obtainable". I don't doubt you can make it work out of your rifle, but out of every rifle? EDITED TO ADD: The above is not completely true. I checked my Hodgdon manual, it's from '93. I was going from memory and I was wrong. It shows max is over 2950 for a 350gr bullet with H4350 in the Weatherby, in a Weatherby rifle. The drawing os the Rigby and the Weatherby show that the Weatherby has a bit more powder space, the neck is shorter than the Rigby. | |||
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George, The guy telling me about these loads says the the 3000+ fps load using a 350 Barnes X bullet and IMR3031 powder is no more than 63,000 psi. Which is the limit for the Weatherby. He claims that he has taken accurate pressure readings. According to him the reloading manuals use powders which are too slow to achieve maximum velocity, H4350, Rel19, Rel 22, H4831, etc. He uses IMR3031, IMR4064, and IMR4895, or so he says. The reason I started this thread is that these velocities are SO over the top from all the reloading manuals I have seen. Ray, the hottest 350 grain, 416 Rigby load I have seen published in a load manual has a muzzle velocity of 2753 fps. The hottest 416 Weatherby mag load I have seen with a 350 grain bullet is ~2835 fps IIRC. I think these loads are COOKIN', but I thought I would ask to get a reality check. ASS_CLOWN | |||
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In my 460wby(box stock), I used 123 grs of Rl-19 for just slightly over 3000fps with both the Hornady 350 gr and the Barnes 350 gr XFB. I honestly found the recoil to be minimal! Accuracy was pretty good too. About 10 years ago I fooled with hot rodding the .416 Rigby. As I remember I could easily duplicate .416 Wby ballistics but ran into some case extraction problems. I was using Norma cases and in discussing it with the guys at Sierra Bullets, they reccomended I take advantage of the stronger/thicker WBY brass, by taking some .416 WBY brass and turning off the belt on my lathe, then running the brass through the .416 Rigby sizing die and fire forming. I made about 20 cases like this and it solved the extraction problem. Case life is still short at these power levels maybe 5 reloads max. I have never used 350 gr bullets in the .416 Rigby as I've been perfectly satisfied with the 410 gr woodleighs.-Rob | |||
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Quote: And how has he taken these pressure readings? ~Holmes | |||
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Quote: That may well be(limits of pressure for the Wea.), but that is adifferent beast than the Rigby. The Weatherby rifles have freebore and most other rifles, unless they are a custom chambered rifle, will not have it. Freebore = higher velocity/less pressure. Then again, you are the expert, at least you used to be.  | |||
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Holmes, He said he was using a strain gage. I don't know anymore than that. George, I have "come clean" about my expertise! I was a fraud, and posted only other's information and/or what I could Google search. Gotta get ready, the weather is good so I will be shooting a 416 Rem mag later this morning. I bought a box of factory 400 grain softs yesterday, yahoo! I feel like a kid at Christmas!! ASS_CLOWN | |||
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Scott, beswt of luck on the 416... and keep the damn scope away from you.. if its on QDs, well, ask him to show you ho wthat works. jeffe | |||
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George, Nick Harveys manual shows a max of 2860 with the 350 gr. bullet...The 2950 was a fat finger mistake, it should be 2750 I suppose.... However I do know some shooters that claim an easy 2900 with the 350 and their Rigbys, and if 2860 is max, then I suspect they do indeed coax another 40 FPS over what a Manual lists and maybe more..At least in todays manauals it's not usually hard to beat them by a 100 FPS, due to litagation concerns by the manual folks....at least on most calibers... But this should be of no concern to anyone, as the 40 calibers perform best on DG at 2400 FPS or less. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Is this possible / safe???
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