Looking to aquire a lightweight 375H&H for elk hunting. Question 1 is how light is too light? I have never shot a 375H&H but I do have a 300 weatherby with recoil around 42ftlbs. I was thinking about keeping the weight down around 7lb with VxIII 3.5x10 and I will not own a gun with a break so that is out. I would like to keep the barrel either 22 or 24 inches. What would the recoil be at 7lbs shooting 300s at 2500fps? and is there a way from a stock or recoil pad standpoint to tame recoil down to around the low 40ftlb?

Try the stainless synthetic winchester 70,its 24in. tube, and lighter than most.I prefer a safari express for the weight,however I have had no recoil problems with either one.The 375 H&H recoil is overrated,it isn't that bad.Good Luck, Rug

BS,
I was in KDF in Seguin TX, on thursday. He had a remington 700 that was tuned mcmillan stock smooth action, but it had a break on it. I would say it was around 7.5 to 8lbs. He wanted 850 for it. I'll bet it will shoot too. I dont have his number but here is the e-mail.
kdfinc@hotmail.com

liled

My old Sako finnBear .375H&H weighed 7 3/4lbs. With good stock design and a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad, I never had any problems with felt recoil.

George

It's been said a million times: Recoil is subjective. Some guys can take a lot and not notice it. Others don't fare so well.

My 9.3 pound CZ is noticeable with Fedral High Energy 300 grainers.

I was hoping to get the whole package(gun and scope) to weigh in around 7lbs. I need to know if a recoil pad and/or special stock can bring the recoil down to a manageable level but still at 7lbs.

Recoil is relative and as I keep telling my self, handling recoil is all mental. Don't think, just shoot. I can handle my 300 weatherby shooting 200s at over 3000fps from a bench with no problem. Just need to make sure I don't have unrealistic expectations.

Most out of the box 375's I've seen will go over 10 pounds when outfitted with a lighter weight scope. My Winchester Safari Express goes over 11 pounds with a Leupold 2 1/2 X 20 scope. This helps tame the recoil, but makes them slower to handle. The next one is going to weigh 8 1/2 pounds, give or take a half.

Dave

This is just personal opinion based on no experience with a 7 pound .375 H&H, but extrapolated a bit from a fair amount of experience with "relatively" lightweight rifles in .338 Win. Mag, .444 Marlin and even .300 Win. Mag.

I think the reason the .375 H&H magnum gets a rep for a "pushy, overrated" recoil is that it is tyically chambered in rifles that weigh at least 9 pounds. My 10 lb 5 oz M70 stainless is indeed, more push than punch. My 9 lb M70 Safari Express is a bit more. An 8 pound .338 Win. Mag shooting 225 grain bullets was much more sharp than either .375.

Foot pounds of recoil is not the problem - look at the recoil velocity. You can survive having a 350 pound linebacker push you down, what happens when a 185 pound middleweight punches you as fast as he can?

Physics is physics, you can't change that. The energy pushing the bullet out of the barrel is exactly equal to the energy pushing the rifle back at you. Lighten the bullet and it's rate of acceleration goes up, giving a higher muzzle velocity. Everybody knows that. The rifle works the same way, lighten it and it's inertia goes down and it's rate of acceleration goes up. You can modify and mitigate it as much as possible with good stock design, but the inertial characteristics of the rifle are codified in the Laws of the Universe and there is nothing that will change that.

All this is just to say - don't try to get TOO much of a good thing. I know, lots of people will say "it doesn't hurt me". That's fine and good and recoil can be "accomodated". I can put three from a stock Ruger #1 in .458 Win. Mag. onto a fist sized rock at 100 but 3 shots is all I want to do.

A 7 pound .375 H&H is going to come back at you very fast, that's all there is to it. It will be very easy to carry, that's for sure, but to get good with any rifle you have to practice. You can probably put up with the recoil for one or two or three or four shots, but you will have to be a very dedicated rifleman to shoot it enough to get the kind of familiarity and proficiency with it that it takes to put the bullet where it counts - and that is the bottom line with any caliber.

A 7 pound elk rifle is a "good thing". But for a 7 pound rifle there are lots of good chamberings that will put down an elk quite decisively that also won't try to put you down on the other end.

Sorry - I see I've gone and ranted. Again, just my take on the matter, but based on a few decades behind one or three moderately heavy kickers.

I have had some lightwieght 375's. First was a SAKO handy rifle, Mcmillian stock with 20" bbl. My brother has it now. I have 2 Blaser R 93 375's, one with a 26" bbl and the other a 19 3/4" Tracker bbl. They are both fairly light especially in the plastic stock. They do not have the "kickstop" installed. Lightweight 375's are not fun off the bench, but when shooting at game you do not notice the recoil.
I can highly recommend the 375 Blaser R-93 in the synthetic stock as a good lightweight hunting rifle.
Out of the box you will have a rifle that has a good trigger and it will feed and eject. There will be no problems with scope mounting. As a plus the rifle takes down for travel and the scope mount will go on/off with no loss of zero. The finish on the bbl seems more rust resistant than stainless steel.

I have a .458 that weighs 8 3/4lbs with a scope, it kicks like a mule!

Jim,

Was your 7lb. .375 a custom job?

George

Recoil is only momentary but gravity is constant.

I have a Rifles Inc. 375 H&H. It weighs in at just under 8 lbs with scope mounts and empty magazine, probably right at 8 with a full mag. It is braked. It is my favorite rifle. Yep it kicks. Not too much though. The trick is to go ahead and get a 416 or a 458 lott and shoot it while your 375 is getting all tricked out. The recoil will be most pleasant when you return to 375. This is true. I speak from experience. Rifles inc does a nice job of making as light a gun as is reasonable. I highly reccomend them. "D"

I have a 9.3x64 that weighs in with a scope at 7pounds 3oz. This will likely be very close to your seven pound 375 H&H. I for some unknown reason didn't have a recoil pad put on. I then proceeded not to do anything with the gun and recently pulled the gun out the safe to shoot.

Shooting 286 gr bullets at 2600 fps it proceeded to get my attention on the bench, even with a PAST recoil shield. The calculated recoil is 49 foot pounds. I don't think it will be a favorite bench gun for me. :-)

I think that for walking long distances it might be pretty nice. However, I wish it was somewhat heavier.

If you shoot your 375 off the bench like you shoot your 30-06, it's going to hurt. When you put the butt a few inches above the bench and half lay down over the bench, your too rigid. All of the recoil hits an imovable object, you. When benching a 375 class rifle I prefer to sit up straight. I raise the forend support accordingly. I hold the forend in my left hand, which is supported by the rest. When shooting the big guys, 400+ grains, 2200 fps or slower, I shoot standing, left hand still on a rest. I have found that many of these guns will shoot to a different place sitting or standing. Something to do with the dynamics of recoil and barrel time. These methods make bench shooting big kickers a lot more pleasant. Incidentaly, I only shoot off a bench for load development or sighting in. Most of my shooting is done standing. Never had a bench in the field.

Dave

nopride is correct,

use a standing bench I use the bonnet of my toyota for all sighting in of big bores. My cz .375 would weigh in at 10.5 pounds I suppose and recoil is fine my awsome hogsback soaks up all the recoil.

I would rather have it weigh a bunch more than 7 pounds. I agree that the recoil won't be that bad hunting, but somehow you have to practice with it and a light .375 isn't my idea of fun. A nine-pounder will be nice to shoot and eill have enough barrel weight to hang offhand as it should. I never have understood any obsession with light rifles and short barrels on a hunting rifle, a couple of extra pounds just won't kill me at the end of the day, in the mountains or anywhere else.

I had a Rem. 700 Mountain Rifle in .375 that weighed right at 7 lbs. It had the factory McMillan stock and a Decelerator pad. It was great to hunt with and recoil was actually quite light for a .375.

It just depends on having a good, straight combed stock.

Get a 375 that carries a lot of weight in a good, solid stock, and then get a light synthetic stock and replace the heavy one with it. If you can, get a short pull length in the synthetic, so you have room for a good recoill pad on the rifle AND a vest type pad you wear.

Now you have 2 rifles....a standard and a lightweight 375 H&H.

We can talk about shooting from the bench and all that, and that during hunting you won't feel the recoil, which is true. But, if you ever develop a flinch you WILL flinch during the moment of truth whether you feel the recoil or not.

So here's something else to think about and I freely admit that I'm plagiarizing Ray Atkinson's ideas. Build a 7 pound .375 H&H. Don't shoot it from the bench, and don't even shoot it from the "classic offhand, kneeling and sitting positions". Shoot it from real world ELK hunting positions. Kneel and shoot it steeply uphill, see if the scope cuts you. Wrap yourself over a rock just like a low bench rest and shoot both level and steeply downhill.

Kneel and lean down and forward, off balance a little, and try to thread that bullet between two pine limbs into that imaginary 6X6 whose kill zone will only appear for a moment.

Shoot it from prone. Not once but three times in a row, fast as you can at that huge trophy disappearing into the timber 300 yards away.

IMHO bullet placement is at least 90% of the battle. I know for a fact that a little impala will run off from a .375 caliber 270 grain Swift A-Frame through the guts, and a 600 pound elk will drop three feet straight down from a 180 grain plain old Hornady from an '06 put into the right spot. If you can't hit where you want to then you will really appreciate the lightness of yuor rifle as you chase a wounded elk a few miles across those mountains. And you can't hit where you want to unless you practice - practice - and practice some more.

Okay - I don't want to come off and say that because I wouldn't or couldn't do something that no one else should or could. Lots of people can do things that I can't. I don't claim to know everything about shooting or how much recoil an individual I've never met can take, but I have been an NRA certified instructor in rifle, pistol, shotgun and a couple of other things for the last ten years, and I know how hard it is to cure a flinch once one develops. If you (the general "you") can take the kind of recoil a 7 lb. .375 firing 300 grain bullets will dish out in extended practice sessions, more power to you. But like I said - try it from real world positions and then let us know how it works.

This is told so often it has become a cliche, but it is a good thought nonetheless. Every guide you ever talk to or read about says he would much rather have a client who can hit with his .270 or '06 than a guy who is afraid of his .3XX Magnum. I've also seen the wisdom and the truth of that, in person, at least a few times.

A 7 lb. elk rifle is a good goal, elk country is usually pretty steep. But unless you are a glutton for punishment I'd really recommend wrapping that 7 pound rifle around nothing more powerful than a .300 Win. Mag. or even just a plain old .30-06. Shoot 168 gr. Barnes TSX's and put them where it counts and no elk in the world will walk away from that.

As always, just my opinion, no more nor less valid than any one else's.

Bill Atkinson converts the standard Ruger 77 Mark II to 375 H&H in order to build a lightweight rifle for professional hunters. There is a write-up on it in the January 2004 Rifle magazine on pages 6-10. Final weight was 7 lb 4 ounce.



He is currently building me a similar rifle in 458 Lott using the left-hand Ruger action.



Atkinson is the A in 475 A&M and worked for Ruger for about twenty years.



Hammer

Thanks for all the advice. Rationalizing what I need is completely different from what I want. I have the guns to take elk, but I want a 375 H&H and I want it light. Maybe 7lbs is not practical, so maybe 8-8.5lb is more reasonable and still be considered "light". Can I be too lazy to tote an extra 16 oz?

I good pad is minimum, but tell me more about stock configuration in relation to "felt recoil". Do thumbhole stocks reduce felt recoil?

Thumbhole stocks may be interesting on light recoiling rifles, but have no place on a lightweight 375 H&H. Don't want my thumb stuck in any hole when a buffalo comes for me. Nor when something fast is happening with an elk.

Hammer

I tried the "using the top of the car" for benching my 375HH model 70 but because of where I was shooting had to shoot over the windshield. When I was done (about 15 rounds) I got back in the car to drive away and found the rearview mirror laying in the floor. The concusion from the muzzle blast flexed the windshield enough to pop the mirror off

No big deal, just had to go by a class shop and have it glued
back on. But have you ever driven on the freeway in heavy rush hour traffic with no rearview? very scary I can tell you!!!

Well, live and learn.

Roi

Elmer Keith once wrote that he was sighting in either a 500 or a 577 over a hood of a truck or car and the concussion caved in the windshield. Now, talk about muzzle blast and sound waves going everywhere.

BS, if you want a light, non-recoiling elk rifle, I suggest the 9.3 x 62. It offers 375 H&H power with far less recoil due to less powder burned.

BS,

My Sako .375 H&H with wood stock & Leupold Vari X III 2.5-8 x 36 in Sako Optilock mts weighed 8lb 8oz. I certainly found the recoil too stout, probably accentuated by the awful Sako factory recoil pad. I shot it a lot on the bench to do load development but now that is done. Till I change projectiles or something like that its no longer an issue.

I certainly never felt the recoil too much in a hunting situation. I put a HS stock on it which actually adds 9oz to the total weight, plus has a nice 1 inch recoil pad. Much nicer to shoot & I have not found the weight too much to carry in the field.

A 7lb rifle all up in a .375 H&H. Hmm I don't think I'd like to be behind that when it went off. You certainly wouldn't have to open the action to check if it'd gone off.

If you want a 7lb rifle I'd certainly consider the wise suggestion someone posted here of going for the 9.3 x 62. My friend Stu C had one custom built in that calibre & now swears by it. Search for his threads. Real nice rifle too.

I'll try to answer your original questions.
A 7# rifle shootign 300g at ~2500 fps will come back about 22 fps with 52 ft lb of energy. IOW, pretty damn stoutly.
Make it an 8# rifle and you're still at 19/46. 9# gets you 17/40, which is where it starts to feel about like a 338 Win Mag. Anywhere from 35-50 ft lb in a good fitting rifle with good pad will just feel sorta "damn, that's brisk!" After that it starts to be more like, "ok, you can do it, just relax... G$#%^(^)&&it! How many of these did I load up?! Where's my bullet puller?"
Now, that said, you'd be hard pressed to find someone to tell you you need a damn 300g bullet to put down an elk.
A 250g going 2900 fps in a 7# rifle will give you 17/40.
That's where I'd be looking. Seems you get a better trajectory with the lighter bullets, and power to spare.
A 250g A-Frame will give you 2k ftlb well past 300yd, the Nosler 260g even farther.
You can't have it all, so if you want lightweight, don't shoot heavyweights!

A few years ago a gentleman in Arizona had a single shot Ruger built in the 505 Gibbs chambering. Got the weight down to 5 lbs. The first time he shot it he realized this was not a good idea. He lets folks shoot it. No one has ever offered to fire the second shot. It hurts.

Along with all the measurable attributes for recoil should be added balance and stock fit. These can help, but somewhere along the way a gun just gets too light.

Babamkulu,



Next thing you will be knocking is the 26 ounce titanium S&W 44 Magnums. Or 19 ounce Charter Arms 44 Bulldogs.



Hammer

Guns are different. I have shot a .338 custom mauser with full house 250gr loads that I could shoot well for 20+ shots and a 9-10lb stock post 64 model 70 in .375H&H that I was only good for 3 shots with. I'm not sure what the difference was. The .375 was heavier. Maybe the stock design wasn't good. Maybe the fit was bad. Maybe the .338 just fit right. I have a .338 carbine that I shoot now and it seems to kick less than my .375 whelen with the same length barrel even though the whelen uses much less powder. The one common thread for me is I seem to do better with stocks that have some monte carlo to them not just straight and flat on top.

Investigate stock fit and design before you spend big $$ I think it can make a huge difference, I'm just not an expert.

Also don't forget that you don't always have to pack every grain of powder in that case. Reduced loads can be made and often giving up a little will gain quite a lot on the recoil end. The elk probably won't know the difference.

Eric

My recent production Winchester 70 .375 (wood stock) weighs about 8.8 lbs bare, exactly 10.5 lbs with Leupold 1.5 x 5, 5 rds, nylon sling. Shooting from any position except prone or bench is acceptable, but I plan to make up some reduced loads for practice using the Hornady 225 gr spire popint and velocity around 2,200 fps. Does anyone have a good formula for reduced .375 loads with jacketed (not cast) bullets?

Look at Accurate Arms brochure or web site. They have xmp5744 data for the 375 in this range. I'm shooting 220 gr Hornady flat points at this velocity and it's a great deer/hog round at moderate range, very mild report and recoil as you might expect, and pretty cheap way to shoot the 375. Bob

Jim-If you don't want to bother with squib loads and filler,
go to a slower powder.Ed.

Hey, I've been reborn! I'm a NEW MEMBER. Actually I've been a member for several years, but when I logged on today. I was told that I didn't exist. What happened? Anyhow, I've resubmitted all info and here I am, again. Is it me and my machine, or is this site very slow and stalls at times???

Now, to my response.

If you want to enjoy shooting your .375 at the range, try reduced loads, as suggested. I agree that it will help your form when shooting that particular gun and not hinder your shooting skills during hunting conditions. You will become a much better shot. I use SR-4759 with reduced loads in several guns, including the .458. For the .375 H&H, refer to a Speer manual, I'm referring to number 10. They list reduced loads for many cartridges. In the .375, I'm currently using a 270 grain bullet, 33.0 grains of SR-4759 @ 1600 FPS. I can shoot it all day long, with no apprehension, just plan fun to shoot. Beware, the loaded round sounds like a half full salt shaker.

As for a light weight .375 H&H., Well, it's not for me, but may be useful for those with that need. I've never had a problem carrying a heavier rifle. There are several companies willing to accomodate those that desire a light weight, including Remington. I have a friend that owns a light weight M700 in .375, Ouch!!!!!

That's my 2 cents and hey, I'm back!