I have some 570 grain .510 diameter Kynoch soft points. What is interesting to me is that the cannelure is almost at the base of the bullet. Clearly it is not for crimping. Was that done to help prevent the lead from extruding out of the back of bullet on impact? In Taylor's book he has a drawing of a Kynoch solid for the .500 NE that shows the same thing.

Thanks.

You might try asking the people at kynamco.com they are the current reincarnation of Kynoch, I've received some good reports on their product.

LLS

Mike,if these are original Kynoch bullets rather than the Woodleigh bullets that they mainly load in their modern ammo, what you might be looking at is the cannelure that the stab crimps that they used to put lower in the case neck went into. I have seen bullets like this before.
Steve

Mike

Shinzo is bang on, the old Kynoch ammunition (made at Witton in Birmingham) as opposed to Kynamco made ammo made use of a cruciform stab crimp which was set back form the case mouth on all calibres, usually 3 such stabs were applied however on some late run .600 samples with 4 stab marks are known. It was simply to hold the bullet and had nothing to do with preventing core slippage.

both softs and solids exhibited the same method of crimping

Here is a picture. This does not look like the described stab crimps, but I guess it could be.

It won't look like them. The stab crimp marks will be on the case only. On the cartridge all you see is a normal cannelure - except if it has been applied a bit heavy handed and prints through onto the bullet!

The stab crimp was applied about 1/4" to 1/2" down from the case neck. This is why your cannelure - is also about 1/4" to 1/2" from where the bullet would be visible outside the mouth of the case.

These stab crimp, sometimes just two long, sometimes three small, on some cases four stabs would then bear into the ring. Indeed on some .450 and .455 revolver cartridges there isn't a stab crimp but a complete crimp RING also 1/4" to 1/2" back from the case mouth.

You could buy a thing like pliers (well more like a castrating tool or hand held walnut cracker actually) that applied such a stab or ring crimp long ago.

Other people just used to lay the reloaded cartridge on its side and tap a stab crimp into the old stab marks using a screwdriver end. Some stab crimps also look just as if a pin punch has been used. I think some .455 Webley Automatic and British loaded .45 ACP if I remember.

So yes, it is a crimp groove. For the revolver see below. A complete ring:

Mike, I think you hit the nail on the head. The cannelure is obviously too far down to be used for crimping, and since Kynoch did not roll crimp but used a stab crimp, it would be useless for anything but core retention. Hornady's interlock is basically the same thing and it does help to a large degree. The only way to know positivley would be to contact Kynamco or Woodleigh. Since Woodleigh has done so much to recreate the old Kynoch bullets, I'll bet they know everything about them. Lee.

It is a crimp to keep the bullet from moving into the case. Taylor's book shows these quite clearly.....I didn't know they were called stab crimps, but their purpose was as stated. I've got some OLD Kynoch ammo and they have 4 "indentations" in approx the same area.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
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quote:

The cannelure is obviously too far down to be used for crimping, and since Kynoch did not roll crimp but used a stab crimp, it would be useless for anything but core retention. Hornady's interlock is basically the same thing and it does help to a large degree.

No. The cannelure IS the crimp groove. Kynoch used a stab crimp instead of a roll crimp, so the cannelure is located in a different place than that on the Woodleigh. The stab crimp is located towards the base of the case neck and corresponds (although sometimes they missed) with the location of the cannelure on the bullet with the bullet seated. The stab crimp indents the case neck into the cannelure.

The cannelure has nothing at all to do with core retention.

quote:

Originally posted by Jonathan Tomlinson:
Mike

Shinzo is bang on, the old Kynoch ammunition (made at Witton in Birmingham) as opposed to Kynamco made ammo made use of a cruciform stab crimp which was set back form the case mouth on all calibres, usually 3 such stabs were applied however on some late run .600 samples with 4 stab marks are known. It was simply to hold the bullet and had nothing to do with preventing core slippage.

both softs and solids exhibited the same method of crimping

The stabs are clearly shown on the original .505 Gibbs cartridge at the far right;