Having a 416 built for my stepfather on an 03a3, he had dreamed for years of a 416 Taylor. When I put together the dummy rounds I realized that I was going to have to get a cannelure tool otherwise the rounds end up under OAL spec. bullets being designed for the longer necked 416's.

I'm happy to say that my gunsmith was thinking better than I and landed upon a perfect solution for standard length actions (mauser 98, pre-64 70's and springfields). The longer neck does away with the cannelure tool.



there's a bonus too. with the short distance to the mouth of the barrel from the mag. box the longer neck doesn't call for a bunch of outside neck chamfering to avoid collision with the belt counterbore.

Red

Then you have to get custom reloading dies, and there is no properly headstamped brass for .416 Taylor that is that long.

It becomes a new cartridge, the ".416 Taylor Long Neck." The ".416 TLN." The ".416 Talon" ???

You could have just found a new bullet like the Barnes banded FN solids and TSX's that offer multiple cannelures. Otherwise seat without a crimp to proper COL until you find the right bullet or get your own canneluring tool, as you say.

Uses same reloading dies, still fires standard 416 Taylor's made off the 458 case as well. And if we want the properly headstamped brass I think Quality Cartridge will put together something for a minimum order of 200.

All around a great idea. I think that Taylor must have made some concessions when he first designed the wildcat, hoping that it would get picked up by a factory. Using the 458 win brass was one and the reason I think it got the shorter neck.

Red

Clever idea!

I find long necks are more versitile, especially for shooting cast loads. You even picked up a bit more powder capacity.

So what is the length of the longer brass?

Don't dismiss my criticism so lightly. I have toyed with many ideas for my .416 Taylor.

Unless you get custom dies: You will be partial neck sizing only and moving the shoulder forward to some degree, with each firing, and not completely resizing the case in the shoulder area. You may get a jam or poor feeding/ hard bolt closing at the least. Not good in a DGR. Bad idea in fact. Smoothness in all function is desired there.

Proper head stamp is a bonus with the .416 Taylor, and most customs people would not be astute enough to notice a .416 Talon is stamped .416 Taylor, IF you can get any brass so stamped.

Enjoying a good wildcat as I do, I agree that it is a clever idea.

I think a set of custom dies would be appropriate though, for the reasons RIP has already mentioned.

Cheers,
Canuck

What am I missing here? Making Taylor cases out of 375 or 416 cases?

Not sure what the point is, as with the Taylor I THOUGHT the point was to make a short case to fit in short actions (?). I guess if you have room in the magazine, then have at it.

Not sure there is any need for a canalure for the Taylor as the powder is compressed in my loads so who cares whether it is crimped?

From the photo, it seems like one could just seat the 416 Rem. bullets deeper and wind up at the same place!!

Dadgummit Will! He is trying to get his loads to fill the available box, for whatever reason, like higher velocity, greater case capacity, etc. You know like a .375 Epstein instead of a .375/.338WinMag.

If you have a compressed load and don't crimp, the COL may grow over time. You know that.

Still no benefit over just seating the bullets out to longest COL that will fit in the magazine of the .416 Taylor, with standard brass and dies, and an extra cannelure would still be a good idea, or a bullet with the cannelure in the desired spot.

Seating the bullet much deeper in the .416 Remington will soon get into the ogive of the bullet and loss of neck tension. You know that too!

RIP,

Thankyou, my father!, but I still ain't buying it (of course).

My cartridges in my Taylor are hammering the front of the magazine box as it is. If those bullets start quirming out of their cases, it will be a miracle.

The alternative is to take these grooved, volumetrically homogeneous metal alloy bullets (monolithics!) and trim them to the desired length. From what I hear, the mono's are so good it doesn't matter what they weigh!

You could have Lee make you a collet crimping die. It negates the need for cutting a new canalure, as it swadges one into the bullet while it crimps the case.

Custom dies aren't necessarily needed, many dies will allow a longer neck then the factory spec.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
You could have Lee make you a collet crimping die. It negates the need for cutting a new canalure, as it swadges one into the bullet while it crimps the case.

Custom dies aren't necessarily needed, many dies will allow a longer neck then the factory spec.

Yes indeed that would work if the whole neck and shoulder can be resized by the current dies. Then one could go ahead and cut the custom neck and throat in the chamber of the rifle and have a sloppy throat with standard ammo.

I don't get it.

If you are using a Mauser action or a Model 70, why not just build a .416 Rem mag?

Will,
I thought your father was an Irish bisexual elephant poacher from Mozambique. I may be Irish, but I am none of the rest of it.

Those stockpiled Speer AGS tungsten penetrator rods would be perfect for the .416 Taylor, eh?

I have a .416 Dakota on an M70 RUM action. The Barnes Triple Shock X's (350 and 400 grainers) fit just right on the first cannelure next to the ogive. Ditto the GSN FN 380. No room to play there, they are right at 3.6" COL. Barely works in a .375 H&H length box, but it works. Even the Hornady RNSP's that I have are too long in the nose for that rifle.

And that brings up the issue that BW had some Hornady bullets with the cannelure in different places, some short and some long, and one was just right for the .416 Taylor, his pet. I don't remember what was old and what was new, or whether it was a goof or a special run by Hornady.

I think I have some of the Hornady's with the long nose, or the ones that are just right for the Taylor.

Do what Paul said. Use standard Taylor brass and chamber, seat the bullets where you want them and use a Lee factory crimp die to seal them up. No need for a channelure where you want to crimp - how freeing!

quote:

Originally posted by the_captain:
Do what Paul said. Use standard Taylor brass and chamber, seat the bullets where you want them and use a Lee factory crimp die to seal them up. No need for a channelure where you want to crimp - how freeing!

That'll work too, though we are back to standard brass, as we should be!

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:

there's a bonus too. with the short distance to the mouth of the barrel from the mag. box the longer neck doesn't call for a bunch of outside neck chamfering to avoid collision with the belt counterbore.

Red

Man Red, if this is for DG I wouldn't tolerate this with short or long necks or period!

I have to agree with RIP on the chambering..... I would stay with the .416 Taylor in original configuration.

It seems like you are walking all the way around your neighbor's field first here instead of just going from the house to the barn.

Special dies to do this L.N. job right, firing forming for full power if you use .375 H&H brass, lots of trim work with .416 brass....

Why not just get a cannelure tool and be done with it? Canneluring bullets is kind of fun really.... Not only that, you can maybe have some extra leeway on throat to bullet fit and even the best feeding length. Put the cannelure at your gun's best spot in other words after testing and not a generic "sort of" place or even build a special casing to fit it?......

The tool is good for other applications and calibers as well.
The multi-grooved monos will allow a similar approach with several "adjustments" for crimp.... A good idea already mentioned as well.

BigRx

Another thought Red,

The bullets for the .416 Rigby (410gr) have the cannelure closer to the bullet's base than the .416 Rem and others. About an eighth of an inch or a little more in my Woodleigh samples. Might be worth checking out if they would work.

BigRx

Some years back, a pro baseball player solved this problem by using the 300 Win. case and giving a 416 a long neck..Wrote it up in Rifle or Hanloader magazine..

I considered it but since any old standard action can be openned to a 416 Rem. I saw little practicality in either cartridge and went with the 416 Rem......

1, a, RCBS .416 Taylor dies do not know the difference. The extra length of neck just keeps on going like the energizer bunny.
, b, The conventional seating die doesnt know the difference either.

2, A neck reamer is run into the barrel after The standard chamber is cut to include Standard throat and leade. The ammount is a few thou. over 1/8"
of neck length.

3, The cases were made from .416 Rem mag cases. Trimmed in the lathe using the Wilson case body type shell holder designed for the Wilson trimmer, just to
avoid a lot of hand turning the Wilson hand crank. The cases were trimmed to correct length after sizing.

4, L.N. simply stood for longer neck. Talon begins with a "tee". If there is some other ctg. using those initials and it does not stand for "Long Neck" there are other
initial options.

5, There is another wildcat in the picture showing a .416 Rem ["Short"] magnum. It has the 36 degree shoulder of the Taylor because it was made using the RCBS
.416 Taylor dies. The neck on this one is shorter. It has increased case capacity. It was made up on pure whimsy. It gains somewhere near the increased
capacity of the Ackley improved ' 06 cases. It is the same overall length as the .416 Taylor, and the .416 Taylor L.N. A spacer was used between the shell holder
and the end of the .416 Taylor sizer. The seater was adjusted to use the same shim washer and the seater plug adjusted for the purpose to provide same O.A.L. .

6, In the M-70 Pre 64, and the Springfield It is possible for the heavy, loaded, cartridge to droop down when completely in the bolt face at the head and fully under the
control of the extractor. Some bullets having more ogive will lift the cartridge up at bottom of chamber mouth as it progresses into the chamber during feeding.,
but just as it starts to straighten out, the end of the neck can and often does hit the counterbore in the chamber for the Belt. Head on crash. If this operation is
done with some speed and determination the end of neck will wrinkle at point of collision, forming a bulge of wrinkled metal and this makes it difficult if not
impossible to fully chamber that round. Bad news for shooter where dangerous game is involved. The longer neck has safely passed by the belt counterbore
before the cartridge is fully aligned with the long axis of the chamber. This can be a more important reason to make the longer neck than just for the convenience of not having to roll an additional cannelure into the bullet.

7, It is not altogether practical to take a Springfield out to Magnum length. Something would have to be done about the ejector, and the bolt stop, notwithstanding
removing metal from the bullet ramp length and lengthening magazine box for and aft, thus defeating the whole idea of a .416 that could be fitted to an action
designed to be 3.4" magazine inside box length.

8, The Wildcat .416 Remington Short Magnum, and the .416 Taylor L.N. are both made using standard chamber Reamers with neck and throat to Normal
Specifications. The method is not any different to a suitably cerebrally and machine tool endowed craftsman, with or without "shingle" hanging out in front of his
shop.

9, The ideal O.A.L is that which allows the cartridge to be "arced" at the base against the back wall so that in moving the round through that arc the bullet nose will
not hit the front wall in this arcing. The O.A.L. is about 3.380" with most bullets in the average Milled Springfield magazine box. The least ammount of forward
movement while in the magazine the better. (Momentum/energy) This was why the ,longer neck. Because Crimping with a Lee type crimper is a good thing, and
you need neck metal that has not been for that purpose excessively chamfered on the exterior to get past the belt cannelure, it seemed a good idea to make a
longer neck, the cases suitably imprinted and the labels on the ammo boxes suitably colorful as well as properly marked.


the 03a3 416 Taylor LN

Edited because I put the url in wrong

Red

You should have said all that in the first place.

Have fun with your project.

No thanks. I'll stick with standard .416 Taylor brass and get a bullet that I can seat out and crimp to fill the standard 3.380" COL. Much easier and no crashing of necks for me. That little edge of the breech should be chamfered a bit and polished smooth to avoid any brass scratching. No problems.

Hell I made my Taylor on a long magnum action Winny and seat the bullets out to 3.54" and used a Taylor factory crimp die by Lee. 400 gr. Swift A frames at 2350 in a 22" Douglas supreme barrel. Been to Africa 4 times before the 416 Rem.Mag. was even out. Killed 4 buff in Tanzania for rations. The whole package weighs 7.75 lbs and kills like hell. I like to kill pigs with it here in Oklahoma.

For I while there I was wishing I had built my .416 Taylor on a longer action than the Ruger M77 Mark II stainless. But even from the 3.4" magazine box mine does 2418 fps (80 degrees F) with 75 grains of RL-15 and 400 grain Hornady, and similar with a Swift A-Frame and Nosler, seated and crimped on the cannelures, but it is a 26" barrel, No.4 Shilen of 14" twist.

Finn Aagaard pioneered the .458 Super Winchester Magnum By A Nose loading technique in the 1980's. This may be even better applied with the advent of Barnes TSX bullets and the readily available CZ 550 Magnum Safari rifles. No special gunsmithing is required, given the long throat of the standard .458 Win Mag.

Load a 500 grain TSX over a case full of RL15, and seat the 500 grain .458 caliber TSX to the first cannelure and crimp it there.

This cartridge will be 3.788" long, or thereabouts, and fit nicely in the CZ 550 Magnum box. Mine holds 6 down and feeds flawlessly!

This will allow the undeservedly much maligned .458 Win Mag to beat the factory claimed ballistics of 2300 fps with 500 grainers in the .458 Lott by Hornady.

You can still shoot the shorter .458 Win Mag loads to hearts content and not worry about eroding the chamber as you would in a .458 Lott chamber.

This .458 Win Mag Long Nose brings us full circle.

Once again the .458 Winchester Magnum is supremely most versatile of all .458 cartridges.

.458 Super Winchester BY A Nose

.458 SWN

Nomenclature thanks to Big Rx.

What a fun thread this was!!!

North Fork Bullets have plenty of grooves too, for use as a cannulure.

What a incredible exercise in mole-hill mountaineering! Why crimp the .416 taylor at all???

I have been using this cartridge for nearly two decades, never crimped a single Taylor round in my life! The original Woodleighs had no crimp groove anyway, still managed to kill walked-up buffalo like lightning! My 98 Mauser sporter has a long list of successful buffalo-hunts to its credit, both in my hands and more recently as a loaner, without one single incidence of failure to feed or eject. Bullets never move in the case-neck under recoil, either in or out, and my loading density with ADI powder is only about 95%.

Save yourselves some heartache! Don't crimp!!

Guess I failed to mention, that I don't crimp either.