A shop not too far from me has a Ruger #1 in Stainless chambered for the 458 Lott. 750- that a acceptable price? I believe the rifle has been fired but is in wonderful condition.

I'm troubled by two things:
1. Ruger developing a 458, or maybe a .423
I think that might break my heart. I waited for the 416 but now have a 450/400 NE 3" so don't have quite the same desire.

2. Just because a .410 400 gr projectile at 2150 fps can be handled adequately by yours truly, there's still a big jump to the Lott, isn't there? Maybe it's too much.

I remember my shoulder after testing the light Marlin 45/70 lever with heavy loads. I can just imagine the Lott. Maybe I wouldn't want it- the original owner obviously felt the same.

I've owned a Browning 375
and 338, and my 450/400 # 1, but still, the thought of that damn rifle is daunting, as it should be!

Any advice about cost or recoil would be greatly appreciated.

munk

Oh yea...that 458 Lott in a #1 is gonna hit you harder than the 450/400 thats for sure. I have both calibers in the #1 and there is quite a difference. After two shots of the 458 Lott with a medium loaded 500gr solid...my brain was feeling the snapping effects of the recoil...I kid you not. Thats with a limbsaver pad and about a pound of lead in the butt for some extra weight and balance for the fat barrel. It certainly has me rethinking about the 505 Gibbs I had planned for my MRC PH action. I found out why there are many used 458Lotts on the market...the same for the Ultramags...just more recoil than many are comfortable with. Ask yourself just how much more recoil over the 450/400 you can stand.

I have the Ruger No. 1 in .458 Win. Mag. blued/walnut stock. Bought it used at 99% and paid $750 last spring.

I also have a Ruger No. 1 in 45/70 Govt. just for the sake of comparison. Stainless/laminate stock. I think I paid $500 about two years ago.

The 45/70 is 7.5 lbs more or less w/o scope.

The .458 is 9.5 lbs more or less w/o scope.

The .458 weight is in the barrel, action, stock. The 458 is just plain beefier. Also, it has a recoil pad that is much thicker than the 45/70. That's why it's more $$$. Ruger No. 1 is a classic Farquharsen design. It's plenty strong for this caliber.

I put a scope on it, Leupold VX I 4x fixed. I think it's 30mm. I chose fixed power because it's more resistant to shock.




RECOIL --

I penciled this out. 30-06 runs about 20 ft. lbs. 45/70 runs about 40 ft. lbs. 458 runs about 60 to 65 ft. lbs. This is all calculted with the heavier gun in the .458.

You can do your own numbers:

http://huntamerica.com/recoil_calculator/

I'm a recoil junkie. I like getting slammed by a large bore gun. I'm 220 lbs, avg. height, not a whimp. Having seen Saeed's YouTubes of his pals shooting the 577 T-Rex and being slammed across the shooting tunnel, I was braced for some hammering. I worried about being hit in the face with the scope, or having the gun jump out of my grip.

Nahhhhhhhhh . . . It slams ya, that's for sure. But it's not what I'd call "punishing."

I've shot the Marlin lever gun in 45/70. The recoil is much harsher. I think fit, balance and weight in a gun has a lot to do with how recoil is perceived. I think the Marlin is too light for 45/70.

Sighting in I fired about 10 rds, bang, bang, bang . . . No bruising, no sore shoulder. I didn't feel like I'd been in a fight.

Win. Mag. and Lott are the same ballistics pretty much. The Lott was developed with a 0.2" longer case to allow some space for powder. Win. Mag. cases w/ 500 grainers have compressed charges -- which get funky in African heat.

You might note ammo prices:

Federal "Cape Shok" 350 gr. .458 Win. Mag runs $119.99 box of 20 at Sportsman's Warehouse.

I got some Hornady brass, 100 pcs for $90. 500 gr. bullets on sale, Hornady Interbond, 50 pcs. at $45.

Lotsa discussion about .458 Lott and Win. Mag. on Wikipedia. "Most popular African BG / DG caliber."

Definitely will stop an elephant.

$750 for stainless (I assume laminated stock) is a good price. Stainless is nice! Laminate stock is durable as hell, handsome I think.

The market these days, gun values are just going up. Buy it! Shoot it! You can't lose.

according to the recoil calculator you posted, the recoil between the 458 winny and the 458 lott are not pretty much the same...try 30% more for the lott. 60-65 ftlbs compared to 79-82ftlbs for the same 9.5lb rifle. Zedo is correct about loaded ammo...its pretty expensive, thats why I roll my own. Shoot one first if possible...750.00 is a lot of dough if you can't handle the recoil of the Lott. I guess you could always shoot the winny mag in it too to lessen the kick.

The great thing about the Lott is it's flexability. You can down load it to 45/70 levels with 350-400 grain bullets for plinking and practice, then load up the full power stuff and go mash something.

The recoil of the top loads will definitely take some getting use to. I would recommend finding a light to mid range load with 350 gr Hornady's or the 405 gr Remy's to start with. Only take two or three full power rounds with you for the first few range sessions, and only shoot them off hand or from a standing rest to start with. Start and finish your range session with the lighter stuff.

Big bore recoil tends to have a cumalitive effect. The first cople of rounds may not seem that bad, but once you get to around 5-7 rounds you will probably begin to feel it.

The No. 1 is a classic, and that stainless/ laminated version is very appealing. I say snatch it up, find a load that's comfortable to you, and enjoy a very nice rifle

Had a #1 in .458 a while back. The recoil was pretty mild even with normal loadings. Soo, had it rechambered for the .460 Weatherby. Anyway, I'm not recoil sensitive at all and it beat hell out of me with it's straight stock design. My old .375 Weatherby #1 did the same thing. Personally, I really like the #1, but not in the harder recoiling coiling calibers. I really like the Lott, but I will bet you will not like shooting it so much. I would much opt for a different rifle for that caliber. Just my 2 cents.

I looked it up earlier- the 458 Lott has a recoil of a little over 70 foot pounds, while the 458 Win Mag is 62ish.

Recoil is not created equal. I don't know why. I'd rather take the foot pounds with a large bullet moving at moderate velocities than a smaller weighted projectile going much faster. ChuckHawks listed the recoil speed of the Lott as very fast- faster than a big 30. In my experience, this is just the opposite. I don't know why he calculated the recoil speed so high for the 500 gr moving out at 2300 fps. The fast thirties hurt, or a 375 or 338 with a lighter bullet driven fast, much more than a heavy bullet at moderate velocities. Big ones shove and I like that. Until you get very big and very serious. Chuck Hawks is probably right about the speed, though the math is over my head.

The 458 has always been in a class by itself. You know you've stepped into a different law of physics from the 375. There's something about the human body trying to push that large a diameter and heavy a weight around...
The 450/400 is OK. It gets your attention, but it doesn't beat you down and give you the boot.

I had a Marlin 45/70 with a nail in the pad. I was so green back in those days I left the nail in. I'd been shooting a couple of years. The factory had replaced the pad and stock, as the original arrived cracked in shipping for a warranty repair on the action. It was decent of them to replace the stock, but I wish they'd pulled out the nail, about a 1/2" below the pad face, buried in the material. Anyway, there I was, on the bench shooting hot 350 and 400 gr loads, with that damn nail in the pad.

I'm mechanically challenged- that's the truth. My shoulder was blue for a couple weeks after that, but I sure sighted in the rifle and tested my pet loads.

I know, it's hard to imagine that kid. I'm 52 now and just a tad wiser.

70 foot pounds of recoil energy- about the same as a Browning 50 with a 30 pound rifle. My son weighs about 70 pounds- that would be like throwing him at my shoulder every time I pull the trigger?

I'll probably feel like the nail's back.

I'll bet with reduced loads, though, that 10 pound Ruger would be a joy to shoot. A 45/70 load would probably feel like a 308



munk

munk,

The Ruger #1 in Lott is a handfull bone stock. A good pad is required and of course one can load down. My stock #1 Lott was pretty harsh with factory 500gr loads. I dressed the sharp edges of the trigger face and safety, added a pad and it was much better!

I liked the Lott round enough to buy a RSM Lott. It still needed a pad but man it shot easier than the #1! My RSM Lott has become one of my favorites, and is a staple in my ground squirrel shoots. Rem 405s w/70gr RL-7 pop varmints good and give a good "big bore" experience!

The #1 was my gateway into Lott land. I liked it but found there are better platforms for me. My RSM put this caliber into a go to round.

I love the 458 Lott, and if you handload you are golden. Start low and work up to the heavy full loads. From varmints to quarry rocks to real DG you have it!

If you are of the "big bore" mindset please buy the #1 or similar rifle. The bigger bores aren't for everyone but if you so inclined I really want you to join us!

We will be here to help you on your way to big bore addiction!

John

Munk, Recoil is one thing, but stock design is another. It's what transfers the recoil (whatever amount) to your shoulder. I've had hundreds of rifles, may of them very large calibers. I guess what I'm trying to say is: a .458 Lott from a well shaped stock can be pleasant to shoot, while from the design of the #1 is something entirely different. I have seen lot's of #1s for sale after their owners gave them a try. Then they run off and buy the same caliber in a well designed bolt action, and all is well. Good luck whatever you get. Just food for thought form experience, since you asked. Good shootin!

I had one, put a Limbsaver pad on it and a pound of lead in the butt. It was manageable but not pleasant. It's got a new home. I'd love to have a .450-400.

I put some money down on the Lott. The Ruger will be mine.

I think some fit the Ruger #1 and some do not, like any rifle.


munk

Let us know how you like it Munk. All my previous comments said, I really like the Lott and really like the #1. I'm pretty stocky and thick so don't bend much with recoil, so I soak it all up, so straight stocks tend to hit me harder than others. I sold my old .460 in the #1 to a tall thin friend of mine that would simply bend back like a big spring when he pulled the trigger. he loves the thing. I have thought thought that the Lott in the #1 would for me at least, be a great heavy cast bullet shooter. Good luck!

DWright;

That's it! I'm not stocky or particularly strong. Pretty average, really. I'm 5 11" and weigh 185 pounds. My upper body is long. For some reason, the #1 doesnt' fit bad at all.

I had a Browning stainless stalker once in 375- that was a straight stock. Worked good except after ever 4 rounds the trigger guard would fly south. Finally had to locktite it on. I think that rifle was a bit light for the 375

I bend with the recoil- I've read that sometimes very strong men have a tendancy to attempt to stand and take it.

That's why I'm here, though- to refresh my memory about some things and to learn a lot more. I've never had such heavy calibres before, and soon I'll have a 458 Lott to add to my gun collection. I'm going to have a great time with that rifle, even if I never see a charging Buffalo.

munk

I have a CZ 458 Lott and it recoils at 74 Ft Lbs
standing, on a bench I use a sandbag.

I've no idea what that will feel like, as I've only my own warm loads in a 450/400 NE 3" to compare it to.


munk

Munk,
You will be fine with the Lott. I punched out a #1 .458 Win to 450 Ackley (same ballistics as the Lott), and love it. If you shot that little sharp kickin Browning stock and survived, the #1 in Lott will feel like a push from a big old dog jumping up on you.

had the same rifle in 458 lott, one of the worst recoiling rifles i have owned,,,,,,,,,,,,,,my 378wby is easier on the shoulder,,,,

Munk,
I've got a mould in .458 that casts a 475 grain big flat nosed buffalo killin' SOB. Always thought a rifle like that Lott would be great fun with shooting that bullet. Pumpin it out at about 2,000 fps shouldn't be too bad and should knock hell outta any game from Alaska to Mexico! Wouldn't be opposed to sending you a few to try. . . . .

I have a #1 in 458 Win, and its recoil is enough to get your attention, but not enough to be truly painful. Really, it is on a par with, say, a 6 pound 12-gauge shooting slugs or 3" shells - at least to my shoulder.

I shoot mine from the bench with no problems, even with max 500-grain loads. My accuracy is a bit reduced from what I can do with a lighter-caliber piece, but still 2 - 2.5 MOA.

The Lott will have a bit more kick, but not terribly so.

One great thing about the 458's is that you can handload them down the power scale a bit. 400-grain cast bullets and SR-4759 can get the power down to .45/70 levels if you just want to plink around or spend some bench time with the piece. Those are also great rounds for close-range work on deer-class game.

quote:

Originally posted by The Maz:
I have a #1 in 458 Win, and its recoil is enough to get your attention, but not enough to be truly painful. Really, it is on a par with, say, a 6 pound 12-gauge shooting slugs or 3" shells - at least to my shoulder.

I shoot mine from the bench with no problems, even with max 500-grain loads. My accuracy is a bit reduced from what I can do with a lighter-caliber piece, but still 2 - 2.5 MOA.

The Lott will have a bit more kick, but not terribly so.

One great thing about the 458's is that you can handload them down the power scale a bit. 400-grain cast bullets and SR-4759 can get the power down to .45/70 levels if you just want to plink around or spend some bench time with the piece. Those are also great rounds for close-range work on deer-class game.

It depends on what 45-70 loads you have in mind! My Ruger No.1 in 45-70 "Improved" (long-throated), for instance, generates 80 ft-lbs of back thrust! But ft-lbs is not the whole issue. Recoil velocity, or recoil momentum, is really what matters when it concerns "felt recoil". Of course, stock shape and fit, as well as the physique and psyche of the shooter is even more important than that!

I shoot a CZ 550 in 458WM at Lott velocities (500 grainers)and the "felt recoil" is the same as my Ruger No.1. The Ruger No.1 is faster, but the gun is lighter. The CZ is slower, but it weighs 2 lbs more! So the Ruger is faster and the CZ is heavier, but the recoil momentum is the same.

I also shoot a Marlin in 45-70, and because of the weight and shape of that rifle, its recoil is exaggerated somewhat.

BUY the rifle NOW!