Please relate all experiences with this round...

Is this the largest round a Mauser 98 will take?

Mike

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Victory Through Superior Firepower!

Though I can't help you with question #1, I believe that the answer to #2 is "Yes!" It certainly is the largest, most powerful "factory" cartridge to be designed for a standard Mauser. Even at that, you need a dropped box and a straight stack magazine to make it work.

Sarge

Thanks Sarge!

I was perusing the reloading info on this board and about fell over! 2,600fps with a 535gr Woodleigh....WOW..

Mike

The largest round designed specifically to fit into a standard M1898 Mauser is the 585 Nyati.

The Jeffery is an impressive cartridge and capable of doing anything the 500 A-Square can in a shorter action. The Jeffery has a case capacity of 148 grains, about the same as the 500 A-Square. If you were to build one I would recommend a CZ 550 Magnum as you can get away from the single stack magazine if you so desire.

Todd E

Todd- I appreciate it I want to stick with a Mauser action.

What is the largest, more easily done cartridge? The biggest thing I have now is a .338 but I really like the Mauser action.

Mike

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Victory Through Superior Firepower!

I've seen a whole lot of crazy stuff built on the M98 action including two 585 NYATI's and I've talked to a guy who has built a .600 on a shortened .50 BMG case on a standard M98!!!. The one question I have is how many rounds will go through such a gun before it Blows! I don't know, but I'm not gonna take a chance on an action that was never designed for those power levels. Without altering the M98 at all, you can easily make a 9.3X64 Brenneke that will deliver a 250 gr bullet at near 2900fps. Thats 340wby or .338 Rum territory and you can use the stock military magazine and not have to cut into the lower locking lug as you will have to do with a .375 H&H or longer cartridge. When i build anything on the .500 Jeff, 500 A-squared,505 Gibbs power level,or above, I like the CZ550 or 1917 Enfield actions as they provide the necessary level of safety I demand.-Rob

Rob I've often wondered about all of those .375's and such on Mauser standard actions...Kuhnhaeusen goes into pretty good detail of why it isn't a good idea!

I want a safe rifle first! Then I would like to have a big thumper..I really want to stick with the mauser action though. My idea is to have two built, one for the .500 Jeffrey and then an identical stocked, size weight rifle in a cartridge with cheaper components for familiarity and practice.

Nothing fancy on either just rugged working rifles..

I think the 2400fps standard should be plenty with the Jeffrey also..no need to push it to 2,600 is there??

Thanks,
Mike

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Victory Through Superior Firepower!

x

[This message has been edited by 500grains (edited 05-01-2002).]

"Please relate all experiences with this round..."

1. I have fondled some 500 jeffery ammo.

2. I have fondled some 500 jeffery rifles.

3. I have talked about the 500 jeffery a lot. Most notably, people say that it is very difficult to get a 500 jeff to feed right.

"Is this the largest round a Mauser 98 will take?"

No. There is the .620 rimless made by Gerald Quintel and the 585 nyati.

However, I believe that the 585 nyati is the largest round that a model 70 will take.

Right now Westley Richards has a beautiful model 70 in 500 jeffery for about $5000. That is a good deal.

Thanks 500

I think I would like to stay at the .500 level I will concentrate on it.

Are the feeding problems related to the need for a single stack magazine? I remember reading on here somewhere about a guy getting mag kits from Germany or somewhere does anyone remember where or who is a good source of the single stack setup?

Mike

As a parallel to Paul M's post what is the ideal velocity for the 535gr Woodleigh's in the .510" variety?

Mike

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Victory Through Superior Firepower!

You have a .338 and are going to a 500 Jeffery? Boy, are you going to in for a surprise!

Yeah but its a Kevlar KS Mtn rifle at about 7.5LB's...

And I wouldn't start at max loads in the Jeffrey, my momma didn't raise no fool

Mike

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Victory Through Superior Firepower!

It is easier to get a rebated rim cartridge to feed from a single stack magazine. If you must have a 500 jeffery instead of a 500 A-Square, then I would suggest having the barreled action set up by Bryan Reeding, Dennis Olson or Butch Searcy. For European makers, I would add Reimer Johannsen and Hartman & Weiss to that list.

To answer your question about velocity with the 535 Woodleigh. At 2500 fps the bullets are beginning to seriously separate. I would not recommend pushing them past 2450 fps and keeping it to 2400 fps would be better yet! Personally, I like the 570 grain Woodleighs much better same velocity as the 535.

Will is correct. You will get a new appreciation for the word recoil! A 7.5 pound 338 Winnie doesn't kick too bad. I used to have a 8 pound 458 Winnie and it paled to insignificance compared to my 505 or 500! Even if you load that 500 to Nitro Express levels (2150 fps 570 grain bullet) the recoil will be beau coupe more than a 338. Not trying to scare you, just help to prepare you for the experience (it is like a right of manhood).

Todd E

Thanks guys, keep the knowledge flowing I'm keeping a copy of the thread!

Mike

You won't have any problems with a 500 Jefferys in a M-98 Mauser of good quality, where you will run into problems is with the hi intensity rounds such as the 7 STW and it ilk...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Thanks Ray!

I just went through the search function and read a bunch of the old posts on this subject, which brought up more questions.

Paul H and others how are the rifles doing??..John Ricks any comments on feeding problems??? What type of magazines are you guys using?? Is the rebated rim causing problems??

Ray I would probably try to follow your advice and keep it around 2150fps if I had one built..

Mike

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Victory Through Superior Firepower!

Does anybody have the case dimensions handy??

How about a site with a picture of the case or a picture of one that you have?

Thanks,

Mike

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Victory Through Superior Firepower!

I assume you are after the 500 Jeffery's case dimensions.

They are:
Base dia: 0.619"
Shoulder dia: 0.604"
Rim dia: 0.573"
Rim thickness: 0.052"
Case length: 2.750"
Shoulder angle: 20 deg
Case capacity: 148.5 gr water

Todd E

ready on the right,

I have no experience with the 500 Jeffery or any of that class. Most of my experience is with the 458 Lott and the 460 Weatherby. If the 2600+ fps 535 gr 500 Jeffery impresses you, the 2600+ fps 600 gr of the 500 A-Square should literally knock you over. I got these figures off of Saeed's reloading page.

Because I don't feel authoritatively capable of the job myself, I am waiting for somebody to bash the .500 Jeffery case for the rebated rim and the short neck, and to note that because of the work that is already done on a CZ 550 and the size of the action, that rebarreling a CZ 550 (preferably to .500 A-Square) is the fastest/easiest/best thing to do. An old military Mauser 98 action sounds like a good deal, until you find out what your gunsmith is going to charge to make it into a rifle...

Mike,

Check the follwoing website for 500 Jeff rifles built on Mauser actions:

http://www.sabirifles.co.za/500j.htm

I have visited their shop in Nelspruit, RSA and handled one of their .500 Jeffery rifles. They make some really nice rifles.

John Talyor's write-up in African Rifles and Cartridges is very favorable as well.

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"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

Hey Mike, make me an offer I can't refuse on my 500 AHR. Will send pics if you want to look at it. Right price I would even throw in a Leupold 1.5X5. CZ550 magnum action, laminated walnut stock, fiber optic front sight. warne QD rings, extra set of 30MM rings made in Australia, woodliegh bullets, brass, dies and some Beartooth cast GC bullets. Far cheaper than going through the trouble of having one made from scratch and haveing to buy components. Fied 80 times.

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AlleninAlaska

http://www.hunting-rifles.com/casecomp.html

This is a link to the company that made my 500 AHR and this exact link is a page with the cartridge comparisons on it.

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AlleninAlaska

Thanks for the dimensions Todd, I loaned out my copy of Dr. Howell's book that I normally reference for everything..

Longbob- If I ever get a real thumper, I'll follow some sound advice on 470Mbogo's page and start low...real low,,,like about what my muzzleloader does and work up from there

HunterJim I about have that site memorized I have been most impressed with it since I first saw it. I just wish the prices were in SA currency so the exchange rate would help make a good deal even better!

Allen- That is a great offer, but I think I want the nostalgia factor of a Mauser and an old traditional cartridge. I bet it would go like hotcakes if you posted it, if you really want to sell it..I have this mental hangup over rifles that you have to disengage the safety in order to unload a loaded round from the chamber! I hope someone will make a model 70/ style safety for the CZ's because the ones I have seen are very impressive.

I am a long way from being ready to make the jump into a big bore...I still haven't had my .35 whelen built and that is going on a year and a half now! Thank God the wifey is Graduated and teaching now so things should begin to speed up finally($$$) My one salary can't support a couple AND a Gun Habit very well yet he..he..

Mike

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Victory Through Superior Firepower!

Allen have you crunched any bears or Moose with the .500??

I bet it is impressive..

Mike

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Victory Through Superior Firepower!

Mike,

You do not have to take the safety off of safe to unload a CZ550.

Todd E

If I was going to use a big Mauser action or an Enfield then I would go with the 505 Gibbs as brass is easier to come by and there isn't much difference..I like the Gibbs.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Tony Sanchez-Arino uses a .500 Jeffery Improved. This is a .500 Jeffery with a full sized rim, not the rebated one in the original..Tony had his rifle made by Harald Wolf who is the man behind the modernized Jeffery round and he swears by it and carry it exsclusively when guiding on elephant. He gave up his .577 double for it so it should be good, he has hunted Africa since 1952 and has shot some 800 - 900 elephant...

Todd- I thought in order to raise the bolt on a live round you had to take the safety off! I haven't touched one in a few months but thought surely the safety locked the bolt down....I hope I am wrong, then I would only have to get one of those huge, overgrown bolt handles welded on and I would be ready to rock and roll..

The CZ handle goes to close to the stock for my fat fingers to get a good hold on it..

Mike

Pondoro sounds like the same cartridge as the AHR round that Allen linked to!

Ray is the Gibbs an odd diameter bullet or something, seems like when I was scouring the archives somebody said bullets were harder to find or something...Maybe it was correct dimensioned barrels I don't remember....How old is the Gibbs round does it have history?

Mike

Mike,

I have a .35 Whelen built on a M98 action that has been shoved to the back by my .376 Steyr. I could make you a deal on it.

Then you would be off and running.

jim dodd

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"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

ready_on_right - you are thinking of the true Mauser military rifles, with a two-position vertical swing safety. The CZ line has the Model 70 style three position side swinging safety.

The 505 Gibbs uses a .505" bullet, instead of the more standard .510" bullet of the 500 Jeffery, 500 N.E etc. Uses a larger case, but is actually loaded to a little lower performance level (525 gr @ 2300 fps) than the 500 Jeffery (535 gr @ 2400 fps).

A .510-.505 Gibbs reamer is an off-the-shelf item from Clymer. When I wanted one, they just grabbed one leftover from the last batch they'd made. .505 Gibbs dies can be made to work, but you're better off with custom .510-.505 Gibbs dies from CH4D. I can't make up any more loads until my dies come back, but there was no difficulty in getting 145 gr. of IMR 5010 under a 700 gr. bullet in the case. This is a very bulky powder. It appeared to me that 160 gr. of WC872 would fit as well. I put loads together with 155 gr. and had room to spare. Both of these loads are very slow. As soon as I get my dies back, I'm going to start using WC852 (slow)in search of decent performance. A while back a bunch of Accurate Reloading people got together and got Lothar Walther to make a run of very nice .510" barrels at a reasonable price. There might still be a few around....

If you want a true DGR in .510-.505, then you want a fat bolt larger than the standard .700", so there's a little metal left around the rim. Or you can rebate the rims on the .505 Gibbs cases. Don't let the .505 bullet diameter hold you back, if the case is what you want.

SDS,

When I loaded for my 505 Gibbs I used IMR 4350. I was able to get awhole lot more than 2400 fps with 600 grain solids. Those powders you mentioned are very slow for a case like the Gibbs.

Mike,

Just pulled out my 500 and double checked with the safety on I cannot open the bolt. So I stand corrected. Sorry guys the memory seems to be going. It is an easy affair though to have a Winchester M70 type three position fitted to the bolt however.

Todd E

Thanks Todd!

Now I'm really confused though because the CZ's I was talking about have a Remington style safety on the right of the tang (like Todd's I bet) and CMcDermott has one with a swing style..that is what I would want..and a fat bolt handle....and some of John Ricks peep sights...and a total weight of about...heavy anyway...Oh I better stop I can't afford it now

HunterJim shoot me an email if you like michaelg38@prodigy.net I would lie to hear the details of your whelen. I want a totally utilitarian rifle. My plan is Boyd's laminated stock, Teflon finish, Pac-Nor Barrel, no sites, timney trigger(Remington style), Leupold 2X-8X,

Mike

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Victory Through Superior Firepower!

I'm still waiting on my 500 Jeffrey from John. The barrel has been chambered, and the bolt opened up, but he needs to do a bit of milling to add the scope bases. I don't think I'll likely scope it, and may just put an Ashley ghost ring on it.

As far as feeding is concerned, I'll be making a magazene, and working out the feeding. Not sure if I'll be going for 3 or 4 in the mag.

If one is looking for a nostalgic powerful mauser, then the 500 Jeffrey is the largest. As far as the rebated rim, I'll have to see if it is a problem. As far as the short neck, the only issue I have with that is using cast bullets, and keeping the gas check in the neck. Then again, you can crimp into a lube groove, and my 470 gr LFN will be fine in a mauser length magazine. I think you could even fit one of the 525 gr cast bullets as sold by Cast Performance, or you can get a mold from Ballisticast.

Thanks for the update Paul!

Has John finished one yet, or is yours number one?

Mike

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Victory Through Superior Firepower!

quote:

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Originally posted by Todd E:
SDS,

When I loaded for my 505 Gibbs I used IMR 4350. I was able to get awhole lot more than 2400 fps with 600 grain solids. Those powders you mentioned are very slow for a case like the Gibbs.

Mike,

Just pulled out my 500 and double checked with the safety on I cannot open the bolt. So I stand corrected. Sorry guys the memory seems to be going. It is an easy affair though to have a Winchester M70 type three position fitted to the bolt however.

Todd E

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Hey Todd. I've been interested in big bores, and i just love the sight of a .505 Gibbs case. For me the .505 gibbs,.500 Jeffrey,.318 Westley Richards and the english .577 NE,.600 NE stands as the symbols of African hunting(Big Five). I was then wondering what ballistics including max do you get with the .505 Gibbs imr-4350 and the 600 grainers. Where do you get quality high pressure cases in this cal ?
What is the highest you can get in your .500 AHR with 570 solids or other bullet weights ?
Hope you will respond.