quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
You nailed it, Alf. JTG is one of the more famous lefties from the Political Forum. Go back to his original post and you'll see he deleted some of the commie buzz words like "bourgeois".

John, this is hypocritical crap coming from someone who recently posted perhaps the epitomie of impractical bourgeois firearms when you showed us the new rifle your wife bought you as a wedding present. Practice what you preach and trade that pig (the gun, not your lovely gun-buying wife) in for a good socialst-built Bakial.

Tigger,

If I'd elected for the "epitome of bourgeois firearms" I would have chosen a 4 Bore. Also, I can't trade the 8-bore as it's custom engraved with our names and date. Seriously, I have no problem with impracticality, but the claim that a round is more "practical" or "necessary" or "superior" on the basis of it's headstamp just gets to me.

Best,

John

OK, but I think you are over-stressing the nature of the support for the round in this thread when you suggest it only a matter of snobbery and underestimating its real value to a company for which having proprietary cartridges is indeed a large part of its heritage.

I can't fault a profit maximizing firm for catering to customers who simply can't bear to have ".416 Rem." stamped on the side of their rifles. I do find it humorous, however, that there are such people and that there are also those who will defend them to the death as being "rational" or of "good taste".


JMHO,

John

JTG,
I must confess: I still regret that i sold my Dodge Charger R/T 440 Magnum 1969 back in 1988

The .416 Remington is not the choise if one wants to go for a .416 calibre. It's cheap, readly avialble -but it produce way to high chamber pressure in high heat conditions. Why not stick to the proven .416 Rigby?

Concerning .400 H&H;
Who want's to buy (and can afford) a Holland & Holland bolt action rifle in .416 R e m i n g t o n? No one with the money, good or bad. They want a H&H calibre and therefore H&H makes the .400 H&H.

If you are considering to buy that brand new RR, you don't go for a De Soto Fireflite because it also have 4 wheels and an engine...

De Soto was fine cars.. -maybe I should buy one

Husky

.

quote:

Originally posted by husky:
JTG,
I must confess: I still regret that i sold my Dodge Charger R/T 440 Magnum 1969 back in 1988

BLASPHEMY!!!

quote:

Originally posted by husky:
The .416 Remington is not the choise if one wants to go for a .416 calibre. It's cheap, readly avialble -but it produce way to high chamber pressure in high heat conditions. Why not stick to the proven .416 Rigby?

Because the actions are big, heavy, and generally more expensive while the pressure issues associated with the REM are blown out of proportion. The .416 Rem operates at a pressure level comparable to any number of other cartridges used in Africa. Cordite is responsive to heat...modern powders...NOT SO MUCH! Further, if you really want to load the .416 Rem to .450/400 velocities to match the .400 H&H then there should be no problem given that the case capacity is higher in the Rem. cartidge. Surely H&H will achieve 2300 fos or better with their cartridge but will not be avoiding the issues that are rumoured to be associated with the .416 Rem. Physics guarantees this.

quote:

Originally posted by husky:
Concerning .400 H&H;
Who want's to buy (and can afford) a Holland & Holland bolt action rifle in .416 R e m i n g t o n? No one with the money, good or bad. They want a H&H calibre and therefore H&H makes the .400 H&H.

And this is silly when one works as well as the other and can do so in an equally elegant H&H rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by husky:
If you are considering to buy that brand new RR, you don't go for a De Soto Fireflite because it also have 4 wheels and an engine...

Your camparison is still not valid. The ammunition is the "fuel" of the rifle and not the equivalent of "the car". If I were to buy a Ferrari in America, I can tell you that I would not be in the least bit concerned who in the US refined a qualitatively identical grade of petrol to that produced in Italy. Both American and Italian petrol will make that Ferrari roar. Similarly, both a .416 Rem and .400 H&H will kill a buffalo equally well and look every bit as elegant when fired from an H&H rifle.

JMHO,

John

Alf,

Ah, so you are an aesthete now? And yes I understand your point and didn't need to be taught by you nor have these "pecuniary canons of taste" drummed into my head by generations of proper "breeding". No, I probably wouldn't buy a Rigby rifle in .416 Rem...but I am not so narrow minded as to not see the folly in such a choice. Frankly, I would probably just spend the same amount of money on a nice front stuffer complete with hand forged bbl and locks. Such a purchase would be supporting the craftsman himself after all and not some evil capitalist company owned by Chanel for Christ's sake..

Best,

John

.

somebody mentioned 400 H&H was a round for the snooty or something of that effect. Not sure I agree. I'm not snooty and thinking about building...........and I'm one of the charter members of the bubbas.....although I am the most handsome......but that still doesnt make me snooty

I've wanted to build a 400 ever since the round come out......but I blame it on Harry, as he has a reamer, and as we were rolling down the Houston freeway this morning he was telling me all the places that have brass........so he gets the blame.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnTheGreek:
I do find it humorous, however, that there are such people and that there are also those who will defend them to the death as being "rational" or of "good taste".



John

I lived one year in the USA. One thing I just loved about it, was that nobody laughed about another mans hat. If he wanted to wear it, it was his own goddam buisnes, and nobody elses.

Could be silly, stupid, overprized, or leaking.
He liked it, he wore it, everybody else could take a flying youknowwhat to youknowwhere.

If someone wants a .400 H&H, who the hell are you to tell him he is stupid? Is there a need for the .600 OK? Is everybody with a .60O 0K stupid?

The debate has been stirred by the rumor that H&H claimed lower preassure than the Remington.
That is worth debating, all else is BS.

Don't misunderstand me! I am not really attacking those who want to build a custom rifle in this round but those who would buy an H&H rifle so chambered simply because the round has the proper name on the headstamp (as though they are getting something superior). These are the "aesthetic" demands by H&H clients pointed out by ALF...and they are completely silly.

As mentioned above, I own an eight bore (front stuffer) so I am DEFEINITELY not judging the .400 H&H (or .600 OK) on the basis of practicality. I definitely AM judging the rationale used by H&H and others here for promoting the round. In short, there can be no rationale as any distinction between the .400 H&H and innumerable other extant rounds is completely invidious.

JMHO,

John

Roland Zeitler of Jagen Weltweit tested an original H&H 400. His first hand opinion is worth reading.

Cheers!

.

Blah, blah, blah, blah. I keep falling asleep waiting for the "official" specs. Before John Ricks went off to do other things, he and I had discussed his numbers. John's chamber was a GUESS. There were no dimensions at that time from the powers that be and I still am not aware of anyone that is supplying a reamer with the "official" dimensions. If there are "official" reamers out there, let's hear it. Until then, it's all a lot of butt smoke.

quote:

Originally posted by NFMike:
Blah, blah, blah, blah. I keep falling asleep waiting for the "official" specs. Before John Ricks went off to do other things, he and I had discussed his numbers. John's chamber was a GUESS. There were no dimensions at that time from the powers that be and I still am not aware of anyone that is supplying a reamer with the "official" dimensions. If there are "official" reamers out there, let's hear it. Until then, it's all a lot of butt smoke.

translation of "butt smoke": BS/hot air