Why put Express sights on a Big Bore? Just for looks?

Who has actually used the folding leaves on Express Sights?

Do you actually regulate them to shoot at the distance stated?

Because they belong there! No the're not just for looks!

I have used the quite a bit!

Yes, otherwise they would be only for looks!

All so-called Express sights, are not created equilly, and some may as well be for looks, because they don't match the type stock the rifle they're on, and are useless. The key to any Iron sight is, QUALITY, and PROPER MOUNTING!

Mac said it well.

But, I like a single standing leaf best. Zeroed at 100 yards. I work on them until they are zeroed correctly with that one special load. Then I hold over for longer ranges. Know thy trajectory. KISS principle. No fumbling with leaves for a rapid shot. No wrong leaf standing for a rapid shot.

The extra leaves I have no use for, except for a small bore toy and non-DGR's.

I am primarily a scope shooter, but I can handle irons. A serious big bore is just not right with out an express or peep backup sight and a highly visible bead or post on the muzzle, according to my tastes.

A 2.5X Leupold can make do on any big bore, and an express sight backup is most reassuring.

Mickey1

From my experience on English Guns (Bolt action and doubles), the Express sights were regulated (at least the 100 and 200 yard leaf sights) as I have tested them. I don't think they were for looks. However I feel that some of the English makers went OVERBOARD with 1 Standing and 5 folding leaf sights.

I have used them occasionally in the field up to 200 yards, however I am like DaggaRon and couldn't have said it better.

"I like a single standing leaf best. Zeroed at 100 yards. I work on them until they are zeroed correctly
with that one special load. Then I hold over for longer ranges. Know thy trajectory. KISS principle. No
fumbling with leaves for a rapid shot. No wrong leaf standing for a rapid shot."

500 Nitro

Express sights came about in an age when there was pretty much only one standard load available for a particular cartridge. That load was usually proofed on the barrel so there would be no confusion.
These multi leaf sights, often with 5 blades out to as many hundred yards, require that the shooter be very adept at estimating range. Most hunters back then had served in the army and were taught how to do so as second nature. While most hunters today do not have such experience, the advent of laser rangefinders may allow folks to make use of vintage rifles.
If most of your shots will be under 200 yds, then a rugged single leaf is all you will ever need.

Hi Mickey,
I agree with Ron as to one fixed leaf sight. On my original 470 that Canuck is the proud owner of I modified the Ruger express sight a bit. I put a white triangle on the fixed rear sight and a red flourescent bead on the front sight. Just put the red dot on top of the white triangle and squeeze. This is very quick and accurate.

On my new 470 I've mounted an Express (Ashley) peep on the quarter rib just ahead of the front lens of a 1.5 to 5 Leupold scope. It has the NECG front flourescent sight and that's the way I'm going to shoot it. This is also very quick and accurate.
I can't see when the folding leaf sight would be of much use. By the time you decided how far the target was away and made the adjustment you would have been able to get off two shots.
Take care,
470 Mbogo

On both my 375 Ackley, and 416 Rigby, I have single blade Express Sights sighted dead on at 100 yards.

Ok then here is a question: do you put your bead in the bottom of the "V" with the sides "touching at 5 and 7 o'clock? Or do you center the bead in the "V" with the top level with the blade?

I ask this as I went and bought every front sight blade CZ makes for the ZKK-602 and using the LOWEST blade, centered in the bottom of the V I am hitting dead on at 100 yards. I would like to have a little leeway.

[ 12-30-2002, 15:22: Message edited by: Roger Rothschild ]

HI,

A lot of the answers I see here made a great deal of sense. I also was thinging of putting express sights on my custom rifle but now maybe not. I saw a good idea on MR. Brockmans web site he uses a ghost ring rear sight that will pop up after removing the scope, that may be a good way to good all business.Thanks,Kev

Gents,
I have been debating those very questions myself.
I shall soon have a 500A2 ready and have real trouble deciding on irons as well as optics. I shall have a Picatinny style rail mounted for sure to allow for more than 2 rings,but then what irons? I really like the idea kev mentioned for the Pop-Up Peep...might be the only time I have ever said I like pop-ups And the flourescent front sight would sure stand out,but would that be offensive? Maybe just a german silver bead?
Scope options galore nowadays...where does one go with the 500A2? It is capable of 1000 yard acccuracy with the 750gr A-Max,that idea alone tempts me to drop a 24x Leupold in some rings and heave milsurps for grins and then for a realistic view I have been considering a 4x Leupold or even a 2.5x for the training required to handle this beast. so little time left,the decision has to be made soon. What are the real world options? I need some feedback to let the 'smith get to the metalwork needed. 45nut

I like them so much I put 'em on my handguns.



Standing is zeroed at 75 yards, one folding is 175. 41 Mag. 4 3/4" custom.

And speaking of express sites. I want to put some on my .416 Rigby. I'll use these while saving to buy a scope.I like the one leaf concept. What brands to you guys recommend? Any links to the makers?

Thanks
Bakes

I have an original Greener three leaf set with front blade that I'll sell, should anyone want it.

After reading all the way through the posts on this I find many opinions not only should or shouldn't, but on types as well. There seem to be those who subscribe to the old muzzle loader theory, that you just hod over if you are shooting past the regulation on a "ONE BLADE" standing sight. This works better with flat shooting rifles of today than those of the old days with rainbow trejectories. I is my distinct impression those who subscribe to that line of thinking would really rather depend on a scope, with the iorns as only emergency back-ups.

Then there are those who are nostalgic, to a fault, and simply want a rifle to look a certain way, regardless whether the sights work or not! Most of this group think the flip-ups are simply for looks, and never will use them in any case.

If you will notice, all the long range rifles of the rainbow tredjectory type, use a tang sight, for long range. I hate to rain on your parade, but the tang sight is simply a "FLIP UP EXPRESS" that is harder to use. These things habitually had markings for the yardages where a little threaded knob was turned till the peep was in line with that range, and is is much simpler to simply flip up the proper range and shoot. The flip-up, and tang sight ovecame one thing ant that was the muzzle of the rifle covering the target at long range makeing hod-over, impossible at anything like long range. with the tang, or flip up, one simply places the bead in the bottom of the V, and holds dead on for that range. This muzzle covering the target is really true with a S/S double. But then most think a double is not accurate at anything over 10 feet anyway, so why bother? RIGHT, I don't think you would want to satnd at 200 yds hopeing I can't hit you with any double rifle I own!

Personally I like one standing fixed Wide-V, and two flip-ups on a double, and one standing, and three flip-ups on a bolt rifle.

The standing is cut for exactly 100 yds, and the next is a flip-up that is cut at 100 yds as well, but cut for fine aiming, and when flipped up, it lies flat against the face of the standing Wide V. Both these sights are good for anything from 150 to in your face. The #2 flip up is cut for fine aiming when shooting at 200 yds, shooting
and can be held over by "topping" the sight for 250 yds. On the bolt rifle they are the same with one more for 300 yds. All settings are for dead on hold.

The front sight is best with a small bead for precision shooting, and a flip, so-called NIGHT SIGHT, for quick accucision in the V.

There is no rule that I'm aware of requireing anyone to use Iron sights, or mount them on their rifles. Additionally, there are some sights that are put on the rifle at the factory that are worthless at best. Though nobody is required to have, or use them, this does not mean they do not work. I think today's shooter in too often simply too lazy to regulate the irons, and learn how to use them. To me, that is sad, but to each his own!

Both of my British double rifles have one standing, and then several flip up leaves. My 450/400 3 1/4 has a 50 yard standing and fold up leaves at 100,200,300,and 400 yards. On the left bbl it is written "THIS BARREL IS ACCURATE WITH THE SIGHTS TO 400 YARDS". On the right bbl is written"THIS BARREL IS ACCURATE WITH THE LEFT TO 50 YARDS". I have tested the rifle with the 200 yard leaf on my 200 yard rock, hits no problem. I hit a Caribou at @ 150 yards with the 200 yard leaf, I was holding at 6 o'clock level with his chest,he was running, and I find it easier to hold so I can see the most of the animal and still get the required lead. I shot at him running twice at about 75 yards, hit behind, not enough lead. He was out of view for a while and I raised the leaf after reloading, while I ran for about 85 yards in hope of seeing him again. The plan worked shot #3 killed him, Hit the rear of the right shoulder and exited low in the neck [400gr. Woodleigh SP at 2200fps].
my 450 No2 has a standing leaf for 100 yards and folding leaves for 200, 300, and 400 yards. The 200 yard leaf is right on. And as a surprise my 350gr Hornady SP at 2330fps has almost the same trajectory as a 480/500gr. at 2150fps., so the leaves are on for the 350gr also because it hits the same place as the heavier bullets do at 100 yards.
I do not see myself shooting Iron sights on any animal much past 200 yards but it looks like the British knew what they were doing.
I do not like to "hold high". If the animal does not drop to the first shot it is hard to track a running animal if you have to hold where you can only see part of him or have to hold completly over him to get the hit. I think folding leaves properly zeroed can be a benefit, especially on rifles that have more of a "rainbow" type of trajectory.

All three of the British double rifles I've owned had express sights with a 100 yard V standing and two folding, for 200 and 300 yards. I found the 200 yard leaves on all three rifles to be on zero as they came to me. I've never gotten around to trying the 300 yard leaves.

Conventional wisdom seems to be that the folding sight leaves and night beads that pre-war British doubles ususally came with were purely ornamental. That hasn't been my experience.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."