I have been thinking about trying a Marlin lever gun and was wondering about the merits of the above calibers. Any imput would be appreciated. I am leaning toward the 45-70 but I have read that the 450 and 444 can be loaded hotter for the Marlin. (I know not to look at the antique gun 45-70 loads)
Thanks for the help. Jay
Posts: 241 | Location: Grand Rapids, Mi, usa | Registered: 27 March 2002
I owned a Marlin lever action in 45/70 for several years. All I can say is pain! It was miserable to shoot. Shooting my 45/70 Contender was less painfull.
I have a 45/70 and would not trade it for the other calibers you mention. My 45/70 is a marlin 1895 and it is accurate and offers a lot of power in a compact package.
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Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002
Don, I should opt for the Guide gun with the ported barrel? I'd most likely reload for the gun and start with light loads too. Oh one other thing Don, Pachmayr is making a pre-fit recoil pad that is supposed to make the Marlin's recoil more tollerable. Jay
Posts: 241 | Location: Grand Rapids, Mi, usa | Registered: 27 March 2002
You have opened the pandora's box. I tried the 45-70 and the 444 and wound up buying the 444. The recoil is less and it doesn't have the 45-70's mortar like trajectory. It all comes down to personal preference. IMHO
Posts: 258 | Location: Baltimore, Maryland US of A | Registered: 01 June 2001
I am shooting the 444 in a M94 Big Bore, yes the recoil with the 265 gr bullet is stiff. Adding a Pachmayer Decelerator added to the comfort level and it is easilly loaded down with 200Gr Hornaday for "plinking". Really a very flexible caliber.
Posts: 3014 | Location: State Of Jefferson | Registered: 27 March 2002
I have both a 45-70 (Winchester) as well as a .450 Marlin. Their performance is virtually identical, if you reload. However, the .450 offers reasonably priced factory loads that are right up there with the "Hot" 45-70 reloaded stuff. I've become more of a .450 believer than I thought I would. Part of the credit goes to the Hornady 350 Grain bullet. It seems to strike just the right balance between velocity and weight and works very well on deer.
Get the Marlin Guide Gun. It is a very good compact rifle for the money. As for the caliber, I like the 45-70 but buy whatever you like best. All the calibers you mention are very similar in performance but only you would know which one you like better. Good luck. Cheers. Ming
Posts: 1002 | Location: Midwest USA | Registered: 01 September 2001
Check "Talk", at the Big Bore forum, for more info on these cartridges.
I've owned both a 444 and 45-70, both Marlins, as well as their 30-30. Excellent leverguns. All three rounds make fine choices. I'd like their stainless Guide Gun, but I want it with no ports and a longer barrel. Perhaps I'm holding out for a model that may never be made, but I can wait a see. ~~~Suluuq
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DEPUTY450: Hi DEPUTY450, First off what sort of area do you hunt? If most of your shooting is under 150 yards the 45-70 packs one hell of a punch. The standard 1895 model is the one that I prefer. I get 1850 fps with a 405 Remington bullet and it groups well at 100 yards. If your in thick bush it's a great combo. Best of luck 470 Mbogo
I believe that Marlin is making a stainless GG without ports this year. Make sure you don't order last year's model if you buy one. Have fun. Cheers. Ming
Posts: 1002 | Location: Midwest USA | Registered: 01 September 2001
Ming, I noticed that in the catalog. I first saw one of the 2002 ss guide guns in a store back in Feb. I thought that there was something wrong with it. Factory Fluke so to speak but I did see that Marlin dropped the ports. I wonder why? I wonder if the ports did not make a difference in recoil??? There is another shop in the area that has a 45-70 ss that is ported. Maybe I should snagg that before it is gone... Jay
Posts: 241 | Location: Grand Rapids, Mi, usa | Registered: 27 March 2002
I think Marlin is worried about complaints of how noisy the ported barrels are, and the good ol' boys are losing their hearing, so it is a product liability thing to go to the non-ported barrel for Marlin's corporate risk management.
I was so disappointed by the lack of recoil with the ported 450 Marlin GG shooting 350 grain factory ammo that I had to get rid of it. I felt under gunned and didn't like the extra noise. I like the greater whump and whomp of 400 grainers at 1800 + fps in the 45-70 with a non-ported barrel anyway.
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001
I personally don't like those holes on my stainless Guide Gun. It would have been better with a removable muzzle brake. I don't think the porting on my Guide Gun is very effective in recoil reduction. If you are concerning about the heavy recoil, I would put on a Kickez(spelling?)pad. I got one on my Ruger No 1 and it was a night and day difference. Good luck. Cheers. Ming
Posts: 1002 | Location: Midwest USA | Registered: 01 September 2001
Recoil from the longer barrelled version is not bad at all, but the pistol grip stock improves things a little. If your caught in a bad position when you shoot the 400 grainers you will notice the recoil then. I have not shot the straight stock version but I reckon it would be a hell of a lot worse recoil wise than my 1895 ss.
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Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002
If you are handloading, get the 45-70. It will easily surpass the power of the 444, and match or better the 450 Marlin. With the 45-70 you get the added versatility of being able to shoot heavier bullets than compared to the 444 Marlin. I opted for the winchester over the marlin, head and shoulders better quality, fit and finish than the marlin, also double the price...something to consider.
I'll explode the 444 Marlin shoots flatter than the 45-70 here also.
The following statements are in regards to the load potential of each cartridge in Marlin lever action rifles.
The 45-70 and 450 Marlin are virtual ballistic equivalents. Given equal sectional density the 45-70 Gov't and 450 Marlin can drive a bullet of similar construction and configuration at least as fast as the 444 Marlin. Given equal weight the 45-70 Gov't and 450 Marlin can drive a bullet of similar construction and configuration significantly faster than the 444 Marlin.
Hence, the 45-70 Gov't and 450 Marlin can shoot as flat as the 444 Marlin and deliver more power while doing so. The obvious result is a significant increase in potential recoil with the 45-70 Gov't and 450 Marlin over the 444 Marlin.
However, the deer, black bear, hog, elk, moose, griz, bison or gnat's ass won't know the difference with a well placed shot with a properly constructed bullet from either.
Posts: 1080 | Location: Western Wisconsin | Registered: 21 May 2002
The 45-70 is by far the better choice. By the way, just try firing a 405 grain bullet at 1800 fps from the Marlin 1895 and let me know if you want anymore power...
1800 fps with a 405 grainer? That's a squib load! I get 1940 with a 22" version.
However, you are absolutely right: it's enough power, even at 1800!!!
I'd also recommend against the ports. I liked the Guide Gun's size, but I sold it because of the ports. And BTW, the Guide Gun's recoil pad has a hard plastic rib inside it (or did, in years gone by). That pad doesn't do a very good job and should be replaced.
Oh, and in case it needs to be said: Buy the .45-70, for all the reasons stated elsewhere! Not to mention cheap brass, loaded ammo availability (even if weak, you can always find it), and the nostalgia factor.
Pertinax
Posts: 444 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 07 November 2001
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pertinax: Hi Gents, When shooting with Daryl Elder and Vasa we compared Daryl's 45-70 ported Guide gun and my 1895 model with the small Triple X Pachmayer pad on it. The 1895 with the small TX pad shot softer than the ported Guide gun. The ballistics were Rem 405 grain bullet @ 1840 fps. The noise level was also softer with the 1895 model. The triple X pad is a bit overkill but I happened to have it. It also made the length of pull nicer. Take care, 470 Mbogo
Ming... thanks for the stainless, non-ported info. Any chance of them doing it with a 22 incher? I'd love to have one with a 22 inch stainless barrel, but would like to own the GG anyway. ~~~Suluuq
Thanks for the imput guys! One more question? Since it was posted above that the pistol grip stock has a lighter felt recoil, would Marlin swap out my straight grip stock for the other? The 30-30 comes in stainless, would it be possible to switch levers too??? I want a stainless 45-70 Guide Gun and a pistol grip stock... That is my goal.... Jay
Posts: 241 | Location: Grand Rapids, Mi, usa | Registered: 27 March 2002
They should do the guide gun minus the ports and minus the straight grip, thy should all have pistol grips I reckon. I have a ported .44 rem mag 1894 16 1/4 barrel and the ports near make it very loud and unpleasant.
Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002
Depuy, I have an early production Marlin 1895 in 45-70 made in 1971 0r 1972. I bought the rifle from a gunsmith friend of mine during the early 1980's and the gun is a honey. The smith polished up the action and it is as smooth as silk. In my earlier shooting of this rifle I was more for the power and would load the 405s to max, but the recoil is substantial for a lite rifle. lately I have been keeping the loads to around the 1400 to 1500 FPS and it is a true pleasure to shoot. I can not say enough about the Marlin company, last year I went on a bull buffalo hunt in Montana and I went to the range 5 days before I went only to find that the ejector had fallen out probably during the last cleaning, when I got home I called the factory and left a message since it was after hours on a friday. On the following tuesday I recieved the ejector via fed X at no charge, by todays standards that was one helluva effort and I wouldn't hesitate to buy a marlin again. The buffalo, a 1650 bull met up against the old 405 grn lead at 1400 FPS and fell to the second shot. The 45-70 has a lot of Tradition in this country and you'd be hard pressed to find reasons not to take it over its newer rival, who knows where they will be 100 years latter. Good luck
Posts: 2300 | Location: Monee, Ill. USA | Registered: 11 April 2001
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