I have a good friend that is in the planning stages for his first safari. He is wanting to have a new gun custom made. He called me this morning looking for opinions on a 458 vs a 416 as he makes his decision on which caliber he should get for his new gun. I have no experience with either caliber. This gun will be for a buff hunt. Any thoughts or suggestions for him?

The Lott is a bigger hammer, and is a better choice for buff and thick-skinned DG than the Rigby, IF your friend can handle it.

The .416 Rigby is more versatile, and may see more use during the rest of the safari.

George

The Lott should be cheaper for him to shoot and reload for too, much cheaper. With brass and dies so readily available from Hornady and so cheap it is a good way to go there. But I don't imagine that either one will see lots of range use, so that might not be a big deal to him.

Red

If this DG game hunt is a one-time thing, I'd go with the Rigby, as I agree with George that the .416 will likely see more use. If your friend feels he may do a good bit of DG hunting, I'd lean towards "the bigger hammer". But, in either case, I'd opt for a CZ-550 or similar rifle and get your feet wet, before making a decision to spend big money on a custom DG rifle. He'll make a more informed decision, afterwards, better knowing what it is he wants, or does not want, in a custom rifle. JMO.

I started my quest for a DG rifle after returning from my 1st palinsgame hunt. I thought I could handle a Lott, so of course I had one put together. After a dozen rounds or so I realized this was too much gun for me, it got sold. I now have a .404 jeffery (basically the same as the Rigby) & find it much more user friendly, so much so that it will be my only rifle on my trip to Moz. next month. The rifle action your friend chooses will also dictate a choice. the Rigby will need a larger action than the Lott, .416Rigby or Rem. will fit in a M70. The .416rem., .404 jeffery or .416 Rigby will handle any DG situation he is likely to encounter anywhere in the world & wil be a bit more versatile for plainsgame hunting.

I have hunted with my 416 Rigby in Africa for everything from buffalo to impala. I have also taken a smaller rifle (30-06, 300 savage) and I have carried and used the 416 much more. If I were to only bring one gun on safari it would be the 416.

Vic,

I urge people to give the .375 H&H a try. It will do it all, and most people don't have trouble learning to shoot it well. That is not true for the .40s, and way not true for the .450s. There are also a lot of new rifle choices in .375, and even used custom rifles available.

My second suggestion is for him to shoot some of these rifles first!

jim dodd

I've never shot a lott, but I do have a 416 rigby and its about all the recoil I want, also building a 404. I could probably handle a gun with more recoil, but I see no point in it for myself. A full house 416 can get ya pretty good. The lott brass is cheaper, but you can load the Rigby brass quite a few time best I can tell, I havent had my that long. And a guy could down load the lott if recoil was a problem but then you might as well have a 458wm. If a guy was going to hunt DG very serious year after yr then the lott may be the way to go. But for a guy that is going to shoot one Buf in his life he could more than likely get by with a 375 unless he just had to have a big boomer. Between the two the 416 would be my choice and not just because of recoil, would be my choice for PG if thats what it came down to.

Been more than one big boomer bought and sold because of recoil.

The Lott is okay if you only shoot it while hunting. I sort of wish I had it back after selling it. But it is abusive, especially if you are only used to a 30-06. The 416 is also abusive but is much easier to get accustomed to its recoil.

All great thoughts and insight expressed here. Clearly the collective thought seems to be that the 416 makes more sense in this case. An amazing resource this place. I will pass along to him the jury's judgement!

Thanks for asking... first, in reality of big bores, the 416 "doesn't kick"... the lott makes ME want to be in anouther county, if the weight is the same as the rigby...

If you friend is after a custom gun, which means he's be spending 2k or more, i would suggest he buy a pair of cz's in 416 and lott, and then shoot them... and sell off the one he doesn't want... then restock/customize the other...

or, sell them both and have a total custom gun built....

the lott will be cheaper to build AND shoot, as a standard mag action can be the starting point.

the 416 will be far easier to shoot and, frankly, is the more versitle load, up, down, and sideways

jeffe

The 458 Lott is a bigger gun, plain and simple, and it kicks like a mule IMO...I have never found the 416 Rigby, 404 Jefferys, or the 416 Rem lacking in the least on any of the big 5..Recoil is a factor with most of us....

I also like the .375 H&H and never found it lacking in killing power, at least with a solid...

I will respectfully disagree that the 375 is a better all around choice for everything than a 416 or 404...My 416 or 404 will drive a 300 gr. monolithic at 3000 FPS and a 350 at 2800 and a 400 at an easy 2400, now a 375 cannot do that or even come close.. but if recoil is an issue then go with the 375 H&H, its a grand caliber.... I, personally cannot tell much difference in recoil between my 375 H&H, 416 Rem. or 404 Jefferys, all properly stocked guns for me. so if recoil is not a factor then go with a 416..

I never want to face such a delima, I like all three of them too much to choose...I will always have one of each..

Johann calitz once told a fellow who was bashing the .375, that the 375 was an excellent elephant gun for those that can shoot...I will add to that profound statement that it also applies to a 700 N. E.

i use a cz375 ,a cz 416.a mauser 458,all are goog rifles with enogh power for the water bufalo but i shoot a 458lott and i think is a real charge stopping for the professional ,here in argentina i guide a lot of bow hunters and need the biggest i can buy i prefer the 458lott.dr juan pablo pozzi www.huntinginargentina.com.ar

All right all, I have a 458 Win that I am having rechambered for 458 Lott (among many other things being done to it). My goal was to get originally intended velocities for the 458 win. with less pressure. If I am doing that rather than loading the Lott up hot, will it be any more abusive than it was as a 458 win? I shot it 5 times before sending off to have it worked on (wouldn't not cycle properly, feed properly, and stock cut for a scope rifle) and I wouldn't say it was any worse than taking punches to the face from an amatuer boxer. :-)

Red

All the 458s I know kick like hell, some folks 458s are simply a maidens caress apparantly

I like your idea however, load the lott down and cure the problem but a 500 gr. bullet at 2150 is a a 500 gr. bullet at 2150, about all most experienced shooters care to cope with...

When you launch a 500 gr or heavier bullet, 2100 fps or faster, the gun moves rearward with some abadone

As much as I like the big bores, I'll freely admit that they generate recoil an order of magnitude greater than the medium bores, 40's are mediums, just large mediums. One can certainly put in the time to learn to master the recoil level. One can also commit crimes against proper rifles by making them very heavy, or putting on a muzzlebreak.

But, if you want a reasonably proportioned, reasonably weighted non-braked hunting rifle, then the 40 caliber is the prudent stopping point. I'd also venture to say that it is highly unlikely that the average client hunter will ever take enough game to see any advantage to the larger bore rifle. He is more likely to see the larger bore as less effective due to not putting in the time to master its recoil.

Gentlemen

Aagard's conclusion was that placeing bullets properly is the key to good results

I would go for the 416 Rigby or 404 since they are most sensible.

Cheers
/ JOHAN

I'm new to this forum and to big bore rifles. I appreciate all the information available on these pages.

I rechambered a Ruger No1 from 458WM to 458 Lott. Would one advantage of the Lott be the ability to still use 458WM ammo? I've never hunted Africa so I don't know about ammo availability there.

One thing I have learned about the Lott is that it is murderous on scopes. Mine has destroyed a Nikon and a Zeiss, both 4X. I've been using an old Leupold 3X and it has withstood 200 rounds without a whimper -- yet.

I haven't hunted DG except for griz with the 458WM, but, the 458 Lott has two kills to its credit. One praire dog (either I hit it or buried it) and one coyote. Sometimes you just gotta start small and work your way up. Plans advance for Africa. Money lags.

Yes AZ, you can use .458wm ammo. Your choice of the Leup. 3x is a good one. The 2.5 is also very durable (my BU scope). Think if your scope is coming apart what's the recoil doing to you?

Real answer to this is a 375 H&H, or 375 RUM, but you can go to 458, 500 grain bullet, at 2150-2250 with low pressure.



Thy name is 450 Rigby(460 WBY, loaded down), or 450 Nitro Express 2...



s

Well, it was already a 458, might as well go Lott. I would love a Rigby, and would just buy the CZ if I were going to get one. But I have a 375 also, so don't NEED any more big boomers. I plan on taking the time to get good with the 458 when I get it back next year sometime (finances allowing) But I will probably stock it to about 10lbs., which I don't feel is too heavy, as long as it balances right. And I would never muzzle brake it, hate the damn things.

Red

Isn't this funny, I shoot the lott and the Riby .416 both in cz's and I reckon or my mind tells me the .416 kicks more. I thinmk it may be due to having a 410 gr woodleigh doing 2550 fps or there abouts and the 102 gr of AR2209 it takes to get it to do that. The Lott I shoot on the other had does around 2300 fps with 80 gr of AR2208 behind the 500 gr woodleigh, I feel the lott is a slower shove but the .416 Rigby has a sharper push. I also feel if one loads the .416 Rigby with the woodleigh 450 gr softs with tha big case it may neally be a bigger hammer than the smaler case capacity lott.