The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Load Data .585 HE with 750gr Woodleigh wanted.Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Does anyone who owns a .585 HE advise on loads that give from 2250 fps through 2400 fps with the 750gr Woodleigh. Barrel length will be 24" Thanks in advance. | ||
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I see loads with RE-17 would Varget work with the .585 HE ? and at what charge weight IMR 4350 ? | |||
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I see loads with RE-17 would Varget work with the .585 HE ? and at what charge weight IMR 4350 ? | |||
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In my rifle, I load this way: Woodleigh 750gr + 155 gr Alliant RL17 = 2403 fps from 26" Pac-Nor tube. That is starting load, you can go up to 170 gr for more velocity. But for Woodleigh, I believe it is maximum to hold together. More info about bullet recovered from water jugs at the bottom of http://www.585he.cz Also check it out at https://www.youtube.com/channe...Zo4rvc2OUMNxg/videos Jiri BTW: Light load: 80 gr of 5744 under 650gr Woodleigh BPE softpoint. 1900 fps. | |||
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Thanks Jiri, in your view what do you estimate you'd lose in velocity going from say 26" to 23 or 24" (barrel length I've opted for) Cheers pc | |||
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PC, getting another 585 mate, or do you already have it? whats the capacity of the 585HE? Id think varget or AR2208 would be a bit fast. Re-17 is quite a bit slower. I remember for Nyatis with their 180-185 water capacity AR2209 was a bit slow and Re-15 was more where it was at, thats for max speeds though. My cartridge liked AR2209 and it had just over 200 grains water capacity but then I was never pushing max, just 2300-2400. I think Rel-17 as Jiri says would be worth trying. If eds case is 200 grains it should do 2600fps from a 25" barrel which is where mine was capable of. If its closer to 577 trex capacity, around 215-220 depending on brass it should do closeer to 2700. Maybe Jiri could provide water capacity? Ed was a good wildcatter but his long barrels or something added some blue sky to his velocities. I dont think he ever beat the Trex for pure capacity with his case, though I could be wrong. As to barrel length, I estimate losses about the standard 25fps per inch of barrel difference. Old information here though, I sold mine 10 years ago.  | |||
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Just found a quote by Ed. "My fired, resized 585HE holds over 205 gr H2O" As I thought, thats behind the 577 trex. I am stretching the memory but seem to recall Mitch Carter telling me his Trex A-square brass which was thick was in the low 210's and his Horneber brass was as high as 220. I think you may reach your velocity goals with AR2209 to be honest, even with a 24" barrel. | |||
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I measured 205 grains water capacity too. Of course T-Rex is a little larger case, but .585 Hubel is more internally ballistically effective what I know. Maybe it is true, maybe not. QuickLoad says: 750 gr Woodleight + 155 gr RL17 = 2390-2430 fps depending on exact seating depth. I measured 2403 fps, so prediction is pretty accurate. The same load says 2365 fps from 24" tube. In this case, powder could be easily compressed. 170 gr of RL17 is little bit over 65k PSI in simulation, but RL-17 behave a little bit different than expected by QL. But QL shows 2600 fps. I don't want to fire that because my rifle is too light and it will kick too much. I don't care if T-rex is a little bit more powerful or not. I will push this reasonably fast - manageable recoil and velocity limit for bullets. (Highly compressed load of RS 76 can yield according to QL - if it is possible to use 123 % compressed load - ~ 2700 fps from 26" tube with 750gr Woodleigh Weldcore at exactly max pressure, T-Rex with the same powder and compressed load can yield 2720 fps at max pressure) | |||
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Trex should beat Ed's case by about 3-4% energy or 50-60fps going off the powder difference. Never knew his case was really only a couple grains larger than mine- mine was just a 3.06" long Nyati case. As you say, no one is really hunting with max loads anyway, so its a moot point. They all have a useful excess of power. | |||
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.585 Hubel Express trim to length is 3.27". I believe chamber is 3.3". | |||
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Interesting, I would have thought 3.3" long basic nyati brass should have more capacity, or is it a long basic 505 gibbs with belt added? I see he reports 2800fps with 750grain and a 30" barrel at one point. Then says another fella 'vestal' got 2800fps with 750 grain and a 22" barrel!!! I am a bit surprised as it means the second loading with 26" barrel would still get 2900fps or so with 750 grain. Thats 14,000 ftlbs from 3" nyati capacity, and I wouldnt think thats possible. Unless its a mixture of special pressure brass etc and some new loading method? if so we could also push 458 lott to 2600fps/500gn aka 460 weatherby power by the same physics... | |||
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Good lord! I just thought I took a beating yesterday afternoon firing my 577 Nitro double 6 rounds off sticks, fired two, dropped in the two rounds I had between my left fingers grabbed two more off belt and fired them offhand, I cant imagine the beating you guys take when shooting a hunting drill etc, with those rifles.  My 750's only clock 2076 fps from a 13.5lb rifle. | |||
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Karl: I know a little at all about internal ballistics. But what I understand, if you have long cylindrical cartridge, you can put a lot of "slower powder" in and compress highly. In combination with high pressure brass (Ed said it is made on the same machine the same way as .408 CheyTac brass), you can have "high pressure for longer time/bullet travel", so more velocity. Ed also wrote "needs 3 lbs more on the gun, and fill case full with 180 gr of Re17, or could try a top load of 180gr H335, for 2800". Jiri | |||
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jerry mcdonald: My rifle is just 10 lb, 8.4 oz and I think 2400 fps is "more than enough" ;-) Jiri | |||
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I would certainly say so, dang, the only thing I have close is a 10lb 8 Bore black powder rifle, 300 grains of black under an 800gr round ball for around 1400 fps boots a lot harder than my 577 double, but has to be no where near what you guys are dealing with, I'm dang near 60 years old, 10lb rifles with 750 grains at 24-2500+ fps is a young mans game ; ] | |||
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Hi Karl longtime no speak ! Mate I sold my original ,585 Nyati end of 2013 mid 2014 I forget....anyway reason for selling was that I wanted to rebuild a .585 in African style, 1/4 rib etc. Bob has had the parts of mine for a few years and now it's practically done. I went for the .585 HE case for a couple of reasons, plenty of brass available and a better case than the .585 Nyati I think.....tougher neck etc. Other reason in my Montana PH action the .585 HE case will work without widening the feed rails, so if you wanted to go back to say .505 Gibbs case you could. The.585 HE kind of reminds me of a .458 Lott on steroids. | |||
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PC: Have you looked at my Montana PH action based rifle? I just wanted simple maintenance free rifle and I got it. BTW: Do not eject full cases (fast) from rifle. Full cases are so heavy you will bend ejector. I did and I know. I ordered two, modified it and left one as a spare one. Jiri | |||
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Well you can tweak enough parametres like 30" barrels to market a calibre as "the 13,000ftlbs 585" when in most hunting guns is just another 200 grain capacity/11500ftlbs 585. And I never really bought into ed's straight wall cases and compressed ball powders as making a big difference to ballistics. If it did things like the 495 a-square would outpower the 500 A-square etc. | |||
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not knocking the calibre btw, If it has a good supply of high pressure brass its leaps and bounds ahead of the other 585's for simplicity and availability. PC, sounds good. who is building it for you? last I talked to Bob he was having some health issues which sounded like he might be closing up shop. Good to hear if he is back in business! | |||
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Jiri If I recall correctly yours is in synthetic stock with a desert tan cerakote paint job ? I liked it, also had a fiber optic front sight ? I'll pass on what you said re ejector to the smith. | |||
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Yeah Bob did have a couple of issues I think he is on the mend.....he will leave a huge hole in the custom big bore gun game when he retires. He is a true artist and sadly one of the last of his kind. | |||
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PC: Look at http://www.585he.cz | |||
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That's Great Jiri....I'd like some nice grub screws in my action to fill in the action base mounting holes, have you got any ? is it a standard thread etc.. I'll just be running the express sight for a while I think. | |||
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I have set of 4 screws and 2 weaver bases for that. Screws are 8-40 I believe. What I know it is drilled and threaded by gunmaker (I am not sure here), bases are made by him for sure. Jiri | |||
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Some more load updates + video: Brass trim to length: 3.27" Barrel: Pac-Nor, 26" Primer used: Fed 215M (GM 215M) 650 gr Woodleigh BP RN SN (crimp to groove): 80 gr of Accurate 5744 - 1900 fps 165 gr of RL17 - 2600 fps 750 gr Woodleigh RN SN (crimp to groove): 155 gr of RL17 - 2400 fps 900 gr Bengal WFNGC (COAL 100 mm - 3.93") 145 gr of RL17 - 2200 fps Those Black Powder Express bullets was on sale and make perfect water melon slayers at 2600 fps ;-) Video is shaky, my friend recording video just fired that 900gr load  https://youtu.be/IXyw8QxtXeg Jiri | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Load Data .585 HE with 750gr Woodleigh wanted.
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