I love the Mannlicher actions for smooth operation as they are like greased lightning. A good smith can do wonders to smooth up any action. Steve Heilmann has polished up mine and they are fantastic.

FWIW:

I read the question as

"What actions are smooth and fast for follow up shots?"

I didn't read

"What actions are smooth and fast for follow up shots that are inexpensive?" nor did I read it as bolties only.

and I thought immediately

DOUBLE RIFLE

Of course a huge chunk of DG hunters could be wrong but they WERE the rifle developed for specifically such purpose.

If you don't like that answer McCann has his .338 Winnie and .458 Winnie Semi-Auto Garand builds. I OWN one of the .338s and it's a tack driver, and I gare-un-tee it cycles in another .338 round faster than any fabled English rifleman can operate his SMLE or any of you could operate ANY boltie. I'm sure the .458 McCann works just as well. For deer gun bolties, the sporter I built on an old Krag Action works just fine but you can't push a hot cartridge in them without making grenades of 'em. .30-40 Improved will knock a deer down quite nicely.

quote:

Originally posted by freischuetz:
Nothing beats an original Manlicher GK

The smoothest bolt rifle depends on what you want to hunt with it! If you are hunting anything dangerous, then the bolt rifle should be the smoothest CRF rifle you can find. If however you want it for deer hunting, or non-dangerous game then the smoothest you can find will be a longer list.

The smoothest bolt rifle I have ever owned and/or used has always been the MCA 1961 Mannlicher Shoenauer, and if you could find one of the very rare Mannlicher Shoenauer rifles(Not to be confused with the Steyr Mannlicher) chambered for 458 Win Mag then you will have the best of the best, and they are not only the smoothest bolt rifle ever made, but are CRF as well. So depending on the chambering you need, the Mannlicher Shoenauer is top of the heap!

The afore mentioned Blaser is smooth, but is a PF rifle, so if you only need the rifle for non-dangerous game then it is a real candidate!

Try working a bolt on one of these: http://www.schuermanarms.com/ Not a classic design by any means, but I have shot the Mannlichers and Sauer 90s and smooth as they are, this new design is easily their superior as far as the smoothness of operating the bolt is concerned.

quote:

Originally posted by mehulkamdar:
Try working a bolt on one of these: http://www.schuermanarms.com/ Not a classic design by any means, but I have shot the Mannlichers and Sauer 90s and smooth as they are, this new design is easily their superior as far as the smoothness of operating the bolt is concerned.

The rear of that action reminds me of some other rifle but I can't think what it is.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
If you are hunting anything dangerous, then the bolt rifle should be the smoothest CRF rifle you can find.

CRF is too complicated and also dependent on case rim and extractor groove dimensions and condition. Probably why the Brits went their way with the SMLE as did every other military.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
If you are hunting anything dangerous, then the bolt rifle should be the smoothest CRF rifle you can find.

CRF is too complicated and also dependent on case rim and extractor groove dimensions and condition. Probably why the Brits went their way with the SMLE as did every other military.

And if you're going to worry about that, complicated not being a word I'd ever heard related to CRF and considering that CRF is MANDATORY to a big chunk of magazine rifle DG hunters, you should be buying a double rifle...Of course, you're talking about intentionally going into the field after DG with possibly unreliable rifle and ammo combination of improper measurements. Perhaps you should stay home under such circumstances or at least re-evaluate how you choose to budget your money for your hunting trip?

Your experience with failed DG hunts caused by CRF problems is what? I'd like to hear the stories. Preferably true ones. References could be a good idea too.

I'm sure those fellows at Westley Richards are complete idiots with their choice of using Mauser actions being as they never outfitted any DG hunters that I know of *cough cough*...I should call up my friend Mueller who gunsmithed for WR for many a year in America and ask him just how many clients they had that were killed by an evil Mauser based WR DG rifle that had feeding problems. Shall I do that a bit later in the day when he's awake in Missouri? We could have a giggle at your expense.

The only "potentially dangerous" rifle for DG I have seen mentioned in this thread is the Blaser, which like it or not, has on occasion chucked it's straight pull bolt back into people's faces. Hasn't happened recently but it HAS HAPPENED. You can ask Blaser's lawyers about it. Factory ammo in all cases too. Considering how long the Mauser CRF action has been around and the limited number of Blaser rifles or even more specifically, the comparatively miniscule number of rounds ever even fired in a Blaser rifle in comparison, exactly which one is putting you at greater risk of injury due to rifle failure? I bet you can figure out the math on that one yourself.

CRF is complicated because you have to get the case rim to slide under the extractor.

Like many Australian shooters I got introduced to CRF via M17 and M98 in the mid to late 60s. For chasing roos and pigs and shooting them from the back of a truck the SMLE left them for dead.

M17s rebarreled to 270 did not compare to a Sako 270. Variable case rim thickness on different 270 ammo would stop the M17. So do mashed up case rims. A burr on the case rim stops CRF.

CRF staggered feed look real nice working.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
CRF is complicated because you have to get the case rim to slide under the extractor.

Like many Australian shooters I got introduced to CRF via M17 and M98 in the mid to late 60s. For chasing roos and pigs and shooting them from the back of a truck the SMLE left them for dead.

M17s rebarreled to 270 did not compare to a Sako 270. Variable case rim thickness on different 270 ammo would stop the M17. So do mashed up case rims. A burr on the case rim stops CRF.

CRF staggered feed look real nice working.

As a yank that smiths, I know how they work and I've never had a problem with any of the 98s I've built nor any of the ammo I've loaded.

As to pigs and military rifles, running or out of a truck, I like my sportered Garands in 06 or .338Winnie. No roos here but if we had them I'd reckon I'd use one of my AR variants on 'em. I realize you are mostly legally disallowed from semis. Shame about that but we don't have that restriction here.

DG I like doubles, singles, and Mag Mauser types. Every cartridge is checked before it goes in the field.

To each his own. Still haven't seen a problem with CRF and brass any more than any other problem re-brass. Lately the greatest screw up I've seen related to brass is improper belt sizing/placement by a certain American manufacturer of ammunition. Nameless at the moment as I'm arguing with them about replacing a bad batch. Being as belted magnums headspace on the belt, it's rather handy to have the belts in the right place, aye? Perhaps they made the belts too small so they'd chamber more easily, which they would if I hadn't measured before not loading them?

quote:

Garands

Push feed?

When the Model 70 CRF Stainless came to Australia I tried them in 270, 300 and 338 Win. The 270 was fine but both 300 and 338 would leave the case sitting on the follower when you extracted it.

From memory, the problem we had with the 270 and M17s was with European ammo called Hirtenberger of a similar name.

If you had use any ammunition that came your way I would bet on an in line push feed and doubly so for calibres like 458 Winchester and 458 Lott loaded with blunt bullets

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
[QUOTE]Garands

Shooting non-DG from moving vehicles...

You added the oranges to the apples here.
Unless you're gonna tell me shooting pigs and roos from the back of a truck "dangerous game hunting". If I were to go to one of the residents of my arms locker for such purposes that was a surplus military rifle such as your SMLE (and I have a couple of them too) I'd take a Garand.

If we're talking DG situation I'd go with Double Rifle followed by either CRF or Falling Block/Farquaharson with a good ejector, depending on if I was going to be backed up or not by another rifle.

Pick if you want to talk apples or oranges or you're going to get mixed answers from me as to what I'd prefer, application dependent. .303 on roos seems overkill anyway. That'd be AR-15 territory. I realize you had that minor problem fellow in Tasmania leading to that not being an option for you.

Back to the original question starting the thread:
Double rifle is the smoothest fastest second shot. Semi is second. Lever is likely third though bolts can be about as fast and there are some slow lever guns. I've seen some people that were really fast and practiced with falling blocks. I'm well aware that most DG hunters will not trust a semi due to mechanical complexity unless they're culling from helicopters in the game parks, same with levers as they are not popular for any DG but bear that I know of. Most all DG hunters have hunted with CRF and most Africans I am friends with still do.

Hard to have a rational discussion if you're switching whorses around on me in mid-stream with the roo and pig thing.

Whatever lights your candle as to preferred action but are we talking fastest action or best swiss army knife of a rifle here and what are we shooting at?

I can't think of ever wishing to be in a situation where I had to use any ammunition that came my way and if it came down to that, I own a machine shop :-) Make my own damn brass in that case.

quote:

Originally posted by Precision Man:
[Unless you're gonna tell me shooting pigs and roos from the back of a truck "dangerous game hunting".

A hidden stump makes it very dangerous game shooting

The closest thing I have used to a Grand for that type of shooting, at least in principle was the Ruger Mini 14.

Lever actions are poor because to hard to reload while bouncing around.

But what that sorting of shooting does test (and especially when followed with spotlight shooting) is a gun under rough conditions, ammo being treated like shit and lots (read LOTS) of shots being fired.

Gentlemen, respectively, I have shot all of the rifles mentioned. NONE are faster/slicker than the Blaser R 93.

The reason Harland takes his Steyr 458 off his shoulder is that he cannot reach the bolt with it shouldered, I have met the man, His arms are not that long... and most normal people could not reach the bolt with the rifle shouldered either...

That does not mean it is the fastest technique.

IF you can keep the game in your sights, while you work the action, then your follow up shots will be a lot faster.

IF you toss and turn at night, about follow up shots, either get a Double rifle, or a Blaser R 93.

Everything else is just a "slight" up grade from a muzzle loader.

What? No Swiss?
K-31 ...

I shot my Hornady SP threw a 6X6 piece of OAK. It went clear threw You could tell That it mushroomed BUT it kept on going.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
The reason Harland takes his Steyr 458 off his shoulder is that he cannot reach the bolt with it shouldered, I have met the man, His arms are not that long... and most normal people could not reach the bolt with the rifle shouldered either...

That does not mean it is the fastest technique.

Tony there is a large difference between the steyr Mannlicher, and the Mannlicher Shoenauer! The steyr is PF , and Mannlicher Shoenauer is CRF! I have the Mannlicher Shoenauer and I can work it from the shoulder quite easily. I would agree the Blaser is smooth, but no more so than the Steyr, or Sauer rifles. SO amoung the Push feed rifles either of those three are about equal, and nither is well designed for a DGR!
Richard Harland told me personally that his best elephant rifle of all the rifles he'd ever used was the Mannlicher Shoenauer Mod 72 S/T 458 win mag made in 1975 till they switched to the PF Steyr Mannlichers. These rifles are quite rare, and are collector rifles that cost as much ad a field grade double rifle, if you can find one.

Like you and many others here for a dedicated DGR nothing beats a double rifle!

For me personally no push feed rifle need apply!