Ruger, Remington, Sako, Whitworth, Savage,Sako, Tikka,Winchester.

I want a rifle I can operate the bolt on while shouldered. My savage is not so good. My remington is better but not much. Neither of these particular rifles are good examples though.
What should I look at with that goal in mind?

The fastest/smoothest I have tried is the Blaser. Of the traditional turn bolts I have tried the Sauers seem to be the smoothest, with Sakos putting in a good show as well. I'm talking about factory rifles, not rifles worked over by a competent riflesmith.

I was rather impressed with the smoothness of the new Sako Bavarian.

The Savage surprises me; most of mine have been pretty smooth to cycle. But they are all fixed magazine rifles. In other guns I've owned with sheet metal boxes, I've found that the feed lips can use some smoothing?

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
The fastest/smoothest I have tried is the Blaser. Of the traditional turn bolts I have tried the Sauers seem to be the smoothest, with Sakos putting in a good show as well. I'm talking about factory rifles, not rifles worked over by a competent riflesmith.

Exactly! Size and geometry of the action add a lot to the equation as well.

Winchester 1895 in 405.

Husqvarna 1900

Nothing beats an original Manlicher GK

There are several factors when to consider when choosing a bolt action rifle and its speed of operation, in my experience they are:

1-The length of pull of the rifle. A long length of pull will make it more difficult to cycle the action. It’s better to have a short stock than a long one. Most factory rifles have a longer than necessary length of pull and should be shortened.
2-The shape and location of the bolt. A smooth and round bolt handle will allow you to operate it better. Also the location of the bolt with relation to the trigger will help you grasp it faster. And a bolt that sticks out a bit from the stock is easier to handle
3-The smoothness of the action is a function of the times you have cycle it in practice. The more you work the action the smoother it will become, since the different parts will be working with each other and brake in, just like a car’s engine does after a few thousand miles of use when you buy it new.
4-Another factor to fast repeat shots is the position and height of the sights on your rifle. Since the position of your face not only helps with accuracy but also how fast you reposition your eye on the target.

I have a CZ550 that in my opinion is a very fast action to cycle since the stock has been shortened to 13 3/8 inch in length and the action has been smoothed by cycling it a few thousand times. Perhaps you can try a few of these things to one of your rifles to see if it helps.

quote:

3-The smoothness of the action is a function of the times you have cycle it in practice. The more you work the action the smoother it will become, since the different parts will be working with each other and brake in, just like a car’s engine does after a few thousand miles of use when you buy it new.

Or you could study the mechanics of your action and apply something like Nano polish to the appropriate areas in order to smooth contact surfaces. A good set of small honing stones could be of some help in smoothing out rough or poorly machined spots. This would do a much better job than setting there cycling the action several thousand times. Spend that time shooting and you might find follow up shots less important.

quote:

1-The length of pull of the rifle. A long length of pull will make it more difficult to cycle the action. It’s better to have a short stock than a long one. Most factory rifles have a longer than necessary length of pull and should be shortened.

LOP is going to be very subjective to the shooter and their dimensions. I feel every factory stock could use another 1/2 inch or more added on to it, but I'm also 6'2". A LOP too short for you is going to get you smacked in the eye by your scope.

With that said, I've got a CZ550 worked over by AHR that is very smooth to cycle. Technically not straight from the factory, but certainly ready for DG!

You forgot muscle memory from firing it a whole bunch of times--- realistically, the one thing that will make the biggest difference. Can you work the action instinctivly from the shoulder while concentrating on aligning the sights!

A CZ re-modeled by AHR.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:
You forgot muscle memory from firing it a whole bunch of times--- realistically, the one thing that will make the biggest difference. Can you work the action instinctivly from the shoulder while concentrating on aligning the sights!

Diito. Which is why 3 lug actions like Wbys can feel bad to someone using a 2 lug all the time. The reverse also applies. When use to it I think the Wby is fastest and when measured by feeding cartidges, not just cycling an empty rifle. The heavy bolt seems to produce a flywheel effect. The very low bolt lift also means the Wby user is grabbing the bolt handle with his hand.

Springfield M1896 or M1898. Very smooth and slick.

The 30-40 Krag is probably the smoothest action I have ever felt. Weatherby MkV actions are pretty smooth, almost like greasy butter. Sakos and Tikkas are prety good. A winchester that has been worked on is pretty good.

John

Smoothest and fastest for followup shot?

Has nobody said "double rifle" yet?

RIP,

Based upon the options listed in the original post on this thread I was lead to believe we were limited to bolt actions. A fine double would be VERY hard to beat for the fastest/smoothest follow-up, that is for sure!

Sauer - inline feed, super smooth.

The MK5 Weatherby isn't too shabby either.

Steyr, M-S also smooth.

I have never handled a Blaser or KR-1

quote:

Originally posted by frank4570:
Ruger, Remington, Sako, Whitworth, Savage,Sako, Tikka,Winchester.

I want a rifle I can operate the bolt on while shouldered. My savage is not so good. My remington is better but not much. Neither of these particular rifles are good examples though.
What should I look at with that goal in mind?

Of the ones listed I prefer Winchester, but I have not tried a Whitworth. My overall favorite is my Heym express rifle.

Blaser is faster than any conventional bolt action besides the lee. I do not belive that any bolt action is fast enough for a second shot on charging ele/lion which is why I got a double. For all other use, my old Mauser M98 or F.N. 9,3's are plenty fast enough

I know that somewhere along the way it has become a cardinal sin if somehow the butt of the rifle is dropped from your shoulder to reload. I don't really think it makes much difference as I suspect one has to move their head off the stock or get poked by the bolt coming back.

If the butt gets dropped a little, while the bolt is being cycled, doesn't seem it would be any slower.

But then ain't it really about shot placement and single-shot rifles?

Will- Who taught you how to use a bolt action? Duh. To shoot one fast you just cant the butt slightly while pulling the bolt back WITHOUT TAKING IT DOWN FROM YOUR SHOULDER. Bolt closed, cant it back check sight picture and squeeze trigger. With practice even a .416 Rigby will sound like a machine gun with aimed shots. Very accurate and very fast. No you dont take it down from your shoulder ever unless your old and tired! We give those guys chairs! We shoot VMBA( Vintage Military Bolt action) competitions each month and thats the winning strategy every time. I make alot of money from the guys who do otherwise.-Rob

Well, well, well ....

I figured this would sucker some guys in.

There is a rather famous elephant hunter, that is still living, that has killed a bunch on culls in Zimbabwe.

He does the very thing, as I do, of dropping the butt a bit, even in a multiple, simultaneous, elephant cow charges.

Good enough for me.

I have no problem working the bolt from my shoulder with a Model 70 or a Weatherby MkV. Turn the rifle a bit clockwise with your left hand (for right handed shooter).

Shooting from the shoulder is not big deal, and I don't "cant" the rifle either.

My Remington 30S in 458 Lott will eat NF 450gr roubds, like a 10 year old eating peanuts.

Keith

R93 for me - I am lefty therefore even more so. Just tested myself/rifle some time ago - Blaser R93 9,3x62. I shot 5 series of 4 shots. R93 had one in the barrel and 3 in mag. Shooting open sights. Measuring time from 1st crack to 4th crack at 25cm dia bull at 15m.

Results

R93 - deviation 5,4-6,2 sec - average 5,8 sec.

To draw any conclusions out of that - anybody should try it for himself and got it from there, however if you start from scratch R93 gives you a major head start.

The R 93 is the fastest Bolt rifle on the Planet.

Most likely the Universe as well.

I have Mausers, 96's and 98's, pre64 M70's and a CZ, or two. Without a doubt, my smoothest is a custom Springfield that was done in Austria in the 30's.

Blaser R93 is untouchable for speed, if your looking at a more conventional action from the one's you listed the M70 is a good one, I even know when my M70's pick up the round but some of mine have well over 2,000 rounds through them.

yes.. and a ruger is no cheaper than a m70, remington, or mark x... snd certainly more costly than almost any milsurp mauser.. in fact, a ruger can be cleaned up in less than an hour, in terms of smoothness... there's no need for polishing stones, fixutres, etc.. though all those tools REQUIRED to slick up a mauser camn be used.

mother's billet polish... that the whole trick... it can't tsakr off enough metal, without severe effort, to hurt anything..

oh, yeah, some me another NEW
dual square bridge
hinged bottem metal
CRF and "feed over the extractor"
return to zero scope mounts
3 position safety
does NOT require heat treating
stainless or cm
lefty or righty
4 sizes
and stainless bolt
with superior gas venting

platform available for under 2k ...

there aint one...

put some mother's on the bolt, avoiding the lugs, and work it for an hour, EMPTY, touching up the mother's when you need to.

it will be wicked slick

quote:

Originally posted by frank4570:
Ruger, Remington, Sako, Whitworth, Savage,Sako, Tikka,Winchester.

I want a rifle I can operate the bolt on while shouldered. My savage is not so good. My remington is better but not much. Neither of these particular rifles are good examples though.
What should I look at with that goal in mind?

The smoothest new bolt rifle I have ever worked was made by Kongsberg in Norway. Too bad two they had locally were .300mag and .338mag ie calibers I was not interested in or I would have bought that rifle. It had gorgeous wood stock with skipline checkering and rose grip tip and end cap.

If I had a charging lion or Ele in front of me the very last thing I'd do is lose my SIGHT PICTURE! Honestly I could not think of a dumber thing to do other than Bombs Away the mag Box!
Dropping the stock is plain dumb. Where is that technique taught? The school of crippled shooting? If I had to do that to reload my gun, I'd throw it in the Zambezi. I've actually had a Buff charge and my sights never left the MoFO till he was Down and Finished!
Oh! Hold on old Boy, please dont kill me Mr BILL, till I get my rifle up and sighted back on you. Cherrio you Know!-NOT-Rob

Goodness gracious.

If for whatever reason what you must have is very quick second/third/fourth shots, forget the bolts and get yourself a BAR. Or a Rem, for that matter. Or, failing that, a BLR.

To return to the original thread, slickest bolt: Schmidt-Rubin. After all these years, it's still what the Blaser 93 wants to be when it grows up.

quote:

If for whatever reason what you must have is very quick second/third/fourth shots, forget the bolts and get yourself a BAR. Or a Rem, for that matter. Or, failing that, a BLR.

You're kidding right?

First, try to ensure your first shot is well delivered so the next is an insurance shot. To your point, my small stature wife uses a Browning A Bolt 375. These are exceptionally smooth due to excellent metal finish and straight-line feed from the magazine. A staggered magazine has lateral friction and adjustment for the cartridge to align with the chamber. Her 1955 Model 70 Featherweight is not quite as smooth, but both are fine rifles.

I own alot of guns. I would say that I can handle repeat shots as well as the next guy.

Colt-Sauer is the smoothest bolt I ever owned. The Weatherby Mark V is the fastest of me.
JMHO........Tom

quote:

Originally posted by Tapper2:
The Weatherby Mark V is the fastest of me.
JMHO........Tom

And especially with the big cartridges like the 416 Wby Vs 416 Rigby in a CZ or Ruger.

A big part is the low lift bolt lets you grab the bolt handle with your hand and the position is much better than the bolt being opened 90 degrees.

But the 378 based calibres in a Wby will jam if you have a combination of someone with very fast hands and the magazine spring is a little weak at the rear. What happens is caused by the bolt nose on the Mark V protruding beyond the locking lugs and when the bolt is in the open position one row of lugs is on the bottom.

With someone who is fast and well practiced with a Mark V they get bolt at the rear of the travel to complete the backward movement and then the forward movement too fast for the case rim to come up. I have never seen a anyone do it from the shoulder but it can be done from the hip.