Thankyou gentlemen for always answering my mundane questions, here is another.

What is the quickest velocity .585 owners are getting with there 650 gr projectiles.

The barrel length my mate and I are putting on is 26".

I see a lot of data for the 750's (thankyou to all those who have sent me data) but not many of you seem to be keen on the 650's. Do they reduce recoil to any extent???

Our rifles are still a long way from being a finished product but we are already thinking about the un-bearable recoil we are in for I am going to sight in for 650's and my mate will sight in for 750's. I will be interested to see which bullet performs better for feral pigs etc. My mate thinks the 750's will be better but 500 grains said and I agree that the 650's will open up heaps more. I just can not wait till it is finished even though I know it will kick so much I probably will not be able to hit a barn door.

I will not sell it (who'd want it anyway) and I will attempt to master it.

Thank you again PC

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I think that 750 grain bullets will open up very fast if you load them to 2500 f/s....

On the expansion issue I think we should keep in mind that the Woodleigh 650 grainers are designed for the 577 BPE at 1800 to 1900 fps, while the Woodleigh 750 grainers are designed for the 577 NE at 2050 fps. Obviously the 750 gainers will be of tougher construction.

For feral hogs and 'roos I would opt for the 650 grainers.

For scrub bulls, I would opt for the 750's.

By the way, do you know if it is possible for a foreigner to arrange a hunt to shoot about 30 scrub bulls? I think that would be an absolute blast. I am not a trophy collector, but I would like to belly crawl up to some of those feisty scrub bulls and blast them at about 15 feet.

My 585 Nyati should be operational in a week or so. Have to finish mounting the sights. I'll let you know as I plan to do a shoot off between the 500A2 and the 585 Nyati.-Rob

500grains,

What soft nose bullet do you think can hold together at 2500 f/s.....?

If you are going to use it on game.....?

What do you think about the Barnes 750 grain soft nose..........?

Or is it better to use the 900 grain woodleigh soft point bullet if you want more power when you hunt.......?

Robgunbuilder I have read on this forum that the .585 is a poor penetrator when compared to the various .500's. I would love to see your results for this and your perceptions on recoil etc. I myself would be interested to do a penetration test bewteen my .416 Rigby and my .585 Nyatti when it is finished, I will just use soft nose woodeligh's in both. I am betting that the .416 will out penetrate it. Rob will you be mounting a scope and what sort??

500 grains they now have a woodleigh 650 grainer of tougher construction of which I have a pack, the BC of the non-blackpowder projectiles is a little lower at .276 and the blackpowder 650's are .32 I if I remember right. I know 500 gr that you can hunt single scrub bulls for a fee I am not sure about a whole mob. This is something I would like to do myself.

Regards PC.

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[This message has been edited by PC (edited 03-07-2002).]

overkill

Even a Barnes X will likely have its pedals break off at that velocity. I think you will need a solid to hold together.

Rob,

How extensive was the work to get the 585 to feed on a cz550?

Sorry to be off topic, but what happened to Overkills Sweedish "accent?"

JKS,
The guy uses a bogus e-mail address, so EVERYTHING is suspect...

George

500 grains- The work required to get the CZ550 to feed the 585 Nyati was pretty extensive and scary. It takes nerve to do this to a $600 action! The bolt had to be opened to .642 contoured and depthed for the Nyati case rim to slide smoothly under the extractor on feeding( We have been around this one before haven't we?). You will be happy to know the fit is not loose and perhaps too tight. The rails had to be milled out big time and internally radiused and the back of the action had to be milled out for extraction clearance( I took pictures of all of this and will post them when I'm done with this thing). It feeds beautifully now but the magazine now only holds two cartridges. If I mill down the follower, I think I can get it to hold three rounds. Nevertheless, it feeds and ejects like an old M-70 in 270 win.
PC - I'm mounting NECG Iron sights on the gun and making up some custom weaver style mounts for a Leupold M8 2.5X compact scope with low Warne rings. I'm waiting for the metal base to arrive, then I've got to cut it, mount it with 8X40 screws (3) and mill the slots for the Warne rings. I'm not going to use the scope if the recoil is too stout and depend on the irons!
As far as my penetration test goes, I think I'll first try some big logs and compare penetration and wacking ability of a 416 Rigby, 450 Ackley mag, the 500 A2 and the 585 Nyati. I'll try and use woodleigh bullets in each and see what happens. I think lots of splinters will fly. Not a very scientific test but Oh so rewarding!-Rob

What stock do you think of? I would consider the carriage of a German WW II 37 mm anti-tank gun ...

For the 1.008 Vincent Buffalo Stomper a Russian ZIS 3 ( 7.62 ) carriage seems appropriate.

And for better mobility, have you considered a SP solution?

:-)))

Hermann

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Rob,

Thanks for the detail and I will look forward to the pics.

I have a cz550 action and a spare 585 nyati barrel sitting waiting for me to get up the courage to deliver them to a smith to start the project. I was a big disheartened to read that you can only fit 2 in the magazine, as that is the situation with my model 70 in .585 nyati (it was converted to single stack). I am assuming that you are still using the staggered mag, not a single stack conversion, is that right?

500 grains- So far just two of those Big Boys fit. Yes its the stock CZ550 staggered Magazine. However, It's close enough that by milling down the follower or making a new one, I think I can get three in. If and when I get the time I really want to experiment with making a true schuler type single stack mag for the CZ550 that will solve this probem properly. You should talk to ED Plummer at AHR as he was very gracious about giving me the info necessary to properly convert mine. Ed is working on a 585 AHR which is nearly identical to the 585 Nyati. He probably would do the work for you and he knows what he's doing. When I talk to him I'll find out how many rounds he can get in his AHR. -Rob

All this stuff is great and has been really useful, I copy and paste it and e-mail to my gunsmith. I wonder Rob if we will have the same trouble with magazine capacity in the 602 actions we are building our .585's from ??. I would really like to be able to get 3 in the mag and one in the chamber.

My weaver mounts arrived yesterday in the mail. There medium height fixed ones.

The dies from CH4 are taking ages, I have paid for them and other associated equipment from CH4's Aussie distributor. I hope I get the stuff as it all cost $608.00 AUS. Thats about $320.00 US for you guy's.

Regards PC.

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Pc- I suspect you will have exactly the same problems with the 602 with respect to cartridge capacity. I also specifically didn't try and modify my extractor to allow for a "snap over" on a chambered cartridge as I believe this practice will eventually lead to failure ( You may not agree). frankly, I'm sure I can figure out how to get three in the mag.
As for Dies, I'm using RCBS and am having crimping problems that result in slightly Bulged cases that won't chamber properly. Once I figure this new one out ,I'll take her for a test-drive. These 585 Nyati's are not so easy to do!-Rob

Rob,

A couple of tricks on the ammo that I learned with my first 585.

1. Seat the bullets and crim in separate operations. Bertram is really soft brass and a seat/crimp seems to be more than it can handle.

2. The act of forming the basic brass into 585 nyati brass in the form/trim die thickens the necks a bit. My barrel was pre-chambered from pac-nor and there was just absolutely no way to fit the cartridges in the chamber. So I had a choice of outside turning the necks (I had a tool custom made), or reaming the neck portion of the chamber a bit more. I reamed the chamber a bit more (I think Dave Manson charged me$80 for a chamber neck reamer) now everything chambers.

You may want to look to see if the neck area of your chamber is too small for the formed brass.

Ouch!- I'd hate to have to open up the neck. My system for chambering uses a JGS floating Reamer holder and a Gre-Tan thr the barrel flushing system and usually produces extremely tight and concentric chambers. I'd hate to have to mess with the neck at this point. Did outside neck turning work oK? I got my reamer from JGS, but I'll bet Pac-Nor got theirs from the same place, so I may have exactly the same problem. I wonder if annealing the brass first before seating will help. I also need to look at my Reamer neck dimensions and the loaded round neck dimensions and see what the best solution is.Thanks for the info-Rob

500,
Here's the one I have been waiting to ask...just what will you be doing with the first .585?

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Same thing I did with the first 270, the first 30-06, the first 358, etc.

Fondle them at least once quarterly.

What velocity is poosible to get with 900 grains woodleigh bullets in 585 Nyati.....?

Some buddy who have tried the 900 grainers in 585 Nyati.........?

Paul,
Who did you end up finding to do the work?

Karl.

Karl I was talking with Mike from this forum and he suggested to try the smith who does the metalwork for Ross Waghorn. His name is Bob DeVries, and his quote was cheaper than Big Islands Guns quote. At the end of the day I am not wealthy and if Bob gets the job done and it shoots and feeds flawlessly well he I have saved some money. Other people have told me he does good work.

I will let you know how good his work is when my mate and I get our rifles back. From what I have read the .585 is not the easiest of jobs.

Hopefully May-June of next year we will get to test them on Donkey's, horses & camels. Just have to arrange a reasonably priced property.

Have you rectified your scope problem with yours Karl??, my mate and I just received our warne fixed rings for ours in the mail, they look sturdy.

Regards PC

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Rob,

Please let us know more of your penetrationtests asap. Thanks !

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UH

Rob,

I have not needed to use my neck turner as I had the chamber neck reamed. My 585 neck turner was made by K&M services for a reasonable price. I sent K&M a case and a bullet and they did the rest.

The neck on my chamber is .611(cerrosafe cast) and my cartridges start off at the crimp at .606 and bulge out to .612 at the shoulder. Thats why they won't fit. I made the Nyati cases from 3 inch basic brass and formed them in the RCBS sizing die. The newly sized cases are .595 and when the bullet is seated they bulge at the top of the shoulder. I think that I need to make a tapered expanding die and expand the neck more before seating the bullet. Annealing the brass befor seating and crimping in a separate operation may also help. Boy these things are Fun! A Nyati seems to have a limitless number of problems to solve!-Rob