Well, I thought long and hard about this searching, researching, seeking out opinions, and finally decided to take the plunge. It has been over a year in the making....

I am going to have two custom Bolt Action DGR's built.

The basis for the rifles has been outlined, I will provide details on that latter, but I would like your thoughts and opinions on caliber choices to consider.

I do already have a 470 Double Rifle as a true stopper, so looking for a bit more flexibility...no other DGRs in the safe...two to do it all including the occasional PG.

I think I will end it here and look forward to your suggestions and opinions...offering a rational for your choices would be helpful.

Thanks, for your feedback!

Well, if I already had a stopper, then a .375h&h is a must. The second would be a .42 bore, either .404jeffery (my choice) or .416rem/rigby. You pretty much have the big bores covered from .375-.470.

You could get by with the .416 Remington alone.

If you REALLY must have two, the .375H&H and the .404 Jeffery would work.

George

I'd choose a .416 Rigby and a .470 Mbogo.

Jim, since they are "DG" rifles and you already have a 470, I'd consider a 416 Rem and a 375 H&H. jorge

416 Rigby and 9.3x62

Two classics that covers everything!

I'm just a beginner with DG rifles but, I'd go with 375 HH and 416 Rigby.

jjs,

How about a matched pair in .375 H&H and .416 Rigby?

- Each can take DG w/o issue.
- They have similar and rather flat trajectories.
- Can be used out to 250 - 300 yrds for PG.
- Lots of premium bullets & reloading components available for both.
- Each has 'reasonable' recoil level.....espcially the .375 H&H.
- Each rifle could be used in place of the other if one were to go out of commission.
- Both are classics.

Since you already have a real classic stopper in your .470 these 2 calibers will give you a bit more
versatility while in the field...

Keep us updated as your projects move along...

Regards,
Dave

Well, if I was headed to Africa I wouldn't take my double and two big bores. It's actually a shame you have that 470, because now you need a 30-06 and a 22 LR and you're done!
I think if it were me I'd go matched pair, 416 Rigby and 550 Express. That puts your double right in the middle and gives a decent explanation when your relatives start calling you crazy.
If you're into speed, neck the Rigby down to 375 instead (or go 378) and it makes even more sense - to some of us at least!

Yeah, right. Like you'll stop with two.

But if I were you, I'd go big and bigger, as in a .458 and a .500, with the particular flavors up to you (I chose Lott and A-Square).

me, I'm thinking my 458 Lott and a 550 Magnum...and maybe haul my Hornet along for some varmint shooting?
AT this point I am looking at going to Africa in January. Hope to accumulate enough $$$ to get my 550 done, and take it along. If not, the SS with the 375/9.3x74R may be the light rifle and the 458 Lott and I will just have to eke it out.

Rich

375 H&H or 416 Rigby and a 505 Gibbs.

I don't see the point in getting a 375 and 416 as the 2 because they are so close to eachother. I would widen the spread of power. Then you would have a smaller big bore around 40 cal, a 470 dr and a true 50 cal bolt for dinosaurs and such.

Seeing as how you have a 470, try one with similar bore, so you can play around with bullets and not stretch your nitro brass. (of course none of which I said makes sense if you don't reload)

The second one how about the slick feeding 9.3x64 Brenneke.

416 Rigby and 9,3X64 Brenneke

or 404 Jeffery and 9,3X70 Magnum

Cheers
/JOHAN

The only sensible choices would be .375 H&H and .416 Remington or Rigby since you have a stopping rifle in the double. This will provide you with at least one more DGR than you'll ever need IMO, but needing rifles would never dictate a custom job either. I still like to shoot the big boys and do it at least once a week. As a matter of fact, I just returned from shooting, warmed up with a .223, then my FN .338-06, finished by breaking some clay pigeons with the .416 Rigby in a Ruger RSM.

jjs
Since you are a confirmed DRSS member I do not think there is a need for a bolt rifle bigger than your 470.
I would get either a 9,3x62 or a 375 H&H, whichever you think you would like the best.
If you have one of those and a 470 double you have Africa covered, so the second bolt rifle should serve a dual function. One as a back up on a special Safari where ONLY DG will be taken, and in NA for elk and moose in the thick, and the big bears.
I would want this bilt rifle to be one of the 40 cals. Either the 404 Jeffery or the 416 Remington as they can be usually built a little trimmer/lighter than a 416 Rigby, but there is nothing wrong with that choice either. Even the 400 H&H would be ok.
I would want this rifle to have express sights and 2 scopes fitted in QD rings. I might even have 2 stocks fitted one wood and one synthentic. Both rifles would be stocked on the early British tradition, ie very minimal stocks.

Or you could just get a scoped Chapuis in 9,3x74R and a scoped 450/400 double and forget all about that Bolt Rifle Trash.

Jim:

I would go with a .416 Rigby and a .375 H&H. I think they are good stepping stones up to your .470.

N E 450 #2:

Welcome back home! Looking forward to your pics, etc!

I almost thought you stole my spec. sheet information, after reading your post above. When I outline the "initial" specs. you will see how close you came...

Some of you pointed out the "Matched Pair" concept and this is exactly my thinking as well. However, I must give credit to ForrestB for this one.

ForrestB's matched pair, 375 and 300 H&Hs, really change my thinking about these rifles. I owe ForrestB and others here, much for the ideas and willingness to share, etc.

I really appreciate all the feedback from you guys...so please continue...

Thanks!

jj
For the 470 double, I would opt for the .375 H& H and the .416 Rigby.

My preference would be a 500 double and a .375 H & H bolt gun coupled with .470 Mbogo or 550 Mag.

Dak

jjs

I think the 375 H&H is the most versatile of all African calibers and have used mine with absolutele satisfaction on several buff and a leopard. I have a matched pair of Bieson pre-64 Mod 70s in 375 H&H and 458 Lott. I have been very satisfied with both as back up rifles to my 465 and 470 doubles.

465H&H

9.3x62 and 404J.

Tony has the best recommendation!

jjs,
Hard to believe you skipped over the .375 H&H for a .470 NE DR, but so be it, you must back track to some useful .375-and-up Bolt Action Trash.

I took a .375 H&H Featherweight M70 (African Sheep Rifle Ground Zero) and a .416 Rigby Ruger RSM as a great combo first time out.

An M70 pair in .375 H&H/.375 Wby and .416 RemMag is very sensible.

The M70 can also be used for the .404 Jeffery and .416 Dakota, another two ultimate-all-purpose rifles, for a redundant pair.

A .416 Dakota/.416 Rigby plus a .450 Dakota/.470 Mbogo might float your boat.

I have done all of these and more, and had most of them before I got a .470 NE Merkel.

I am still working on the Bolt Action Trash collection.

How about a .423/.338 Lapua Magnum in a Dakota 76 African action?

There are many ways to skin a cat. Many right answers.

Most sensible: any of the .375's plus a .416, and bring the .470 NE DR.

certainly one has to be Holland's .375.

Possibly one should consider a lighter gun for leopard and large plains game.....maybe a 338-06.

RIP,

Hope you are doing well.

No, I did not skip past the 375 H&H right to the DR 470NE. I had a 375 H&H, 416 Rigby, and 458 Lott all factory rifles that were modified a bit...

In the last year, I have sold off a bunch of rifles, some I used and others that just sat in a safe, all in anticipation of doing something different.

There have been many things that have lead me to this point. I sent the last year trying to decide what the heck I wanted...back and forth on options, actions, wood stocks vs syn., stocks, etc. making very little progress on my own...

Without the search function on AR and several great folks that helped me out recently, it would still be just an idea...it only came together for me in the last couple of weeks and only after much agonizing, on my part, over the last year.

It should be an interesting process, my first time having a rifle built....

I do appreciate your input...Thanks, Jim

I will start by saying I have absolutely no experience with big bore rifles and I've never been to Africa.

If I were getting 2 bolt rifles made, I'd go with the .404 Jeffery and the .505 Gibbs. As far as I know the .404 would be good for PG and DG. When you get the itch to hunt ele, the .505 could be considered better then your double because the the bigger dia. bullet and more power so if you miss the ele's brain you still should knock it down. But as i said i have no knowledge on this, just what i'd like to bring with me one day.

I have been thinking about this a bit myself. Given that you already own a double, I think it would be neat to pair the .470 with a scoped 9,3x74. It will cover all the bases and you can get one for what a pair of decent bolt guns would cost you or LESS! If you want a pair of bolt guns anyway, and given that you own a .470, I would go with a .333 Jeffery or .318 WR as the light dangerous game/heavy PG gun and then a .505 Gibbs or .500 Jeffery (or really anything .50 cal or bigger)

JMHO,

John

You have a "true stopper", so why not go with the ultimate in flexibility - and then take a trip down history lane.

First up, a gun for all seasons, all game, and all places, a scoped, stainless, synthetic .375 H&H. Does one really need the rational repeated for this selection?



The second - a wood and deep blue steel bit of perfection - nice walnut, horn forend, quarter rib express sights, banded front sight, barrel band sling swivel built on a mauser actian with the thumb cut and stripper slot. The caliber - one used by many hunters and game scout - the .404 Jeffery. The only acquiescence to the present being scope bases (Talleys) and a 3-position Model 70-type safety for flexibility.

One day I hope to be able to post a photo of mine as described above - it hasn't been born yet, just dreamed of.

Jim:

You better start saving for number three. I think a 300 H&H would make yours a perfect threesome!

Lou:
I just recently missed purchasing a very nice original condition Pre 64 300 H&H...on my list, it's a question of when...folks are really asking $$$ for these now.

JTG,
I have been folowing the thread, in the Medium Bore forum, on the 333 Jeffery... seems like a really interest cartridge. I going to attempt to find out more on the 333 Jeffery.

A couple of you guys also mentioned some nice choices on the "light" side of the equation, also very interesting....

When considering these rifles, my objectives include having two very similar rifles, capable for DG (legal anywhere), trim as possible, reasonable weight, capable out to 250+ yds on PG and Whitetails and handle/balance as close as possible...but two different calibers.

I may be asking a bit much . Possibly I am missing some requirements that should be included, in the function of these rifles? any suggestions?

My current thinking is to have both rifles on the same size action and weigh in at about 9 lbs or slightly less. This kind of excludes the over 458 cartridges, for me at least.

A 10 lb 458 Lott, without muzzle break, is about all I want in terms of recoil and weight. Beyond that level, weight and recoil, it becomes less of a hunting rifle for me...

So, I may be narrowing this down a bit...

Thanks guys!

The way I see it is to have one built as a 375H&H and the other as a 300H&H.

I know your asking for recomendations for two DG calibres but I think there is more utility in my suggestion. Your 470 is tops for DG, your 375H&H would be your backup here and would be the second rifle to take on any safari that features DG. I am of the opinion that if you are hunting DG and taking two rifles then both should be DG capable and legal. The 375H&H is extremely vesitile, as 465H&H has pointed out, and will do fine as a plains game rifle the great majority of situations.

Your 300H&H - and here I would, and did, go with a 30-06, but you specified same action length - would see lots of use here for deer etc and your 375H&H, being matched, would get lots of vicarious practice.

Also, a vote for the medium calibre DR. I think I'd go 375H&H or preferable Flanged, maybe 9.3x74R. With the 470 and the medium bore DR being fit the same your 470 will get the vicarious practice from your using the medium bore. IMO a huge bonus would be the ability to pack both rifles into a breakdown case for travel. If you pack right,I believe you could make your weight limits with your two DR's in a breakdown case in one of the made for purpose drop bottom duffels and carry a third light rifle in its full length case. Or travel with just one bag.

Thinking about it I'd have the 375H&H made as a takedown so that the 470 and the 375H&H will pack into a takedown length case.

JPK

since custom built - should be fancy caliber...how about Saeds combo - 375/404 & 416 Rigby (improved) ?

Is nostalgia any concern for you? It is for me. I like using a classic cartridge. Since you want the same action length I would think a 375 would be a must, and the 404 is the only logical other round. If you go lighter you rapidly get out of DG legal turf. The 416 Remington has no nostalgia associated. I guess the 416 Hoffman might get consideration. I had the pleasure of dealing with George a time or two. I chose the 375 H&H and a 416 Rigby. Same action was not an issue for me. Good hunting.

Jim: just a word of caution on all this "nostalgia/classic" and ESPCIALLY "wildcat" stuff. I'd stay away from them.

Neither the 333 or 318WR come close to the performance of a 338 Wn mag for example an finding ammo for it is all but impossible. The 9.3X74R is about as useless as teats on a side of bacon, particularly in a bolt! If you want those type of calibers, then find an original and I can almost guarantee you, they'll stay at home when you go do some serious hunting.

I like JPK's idea, being that you found a good 300 H&H,which BTW,is about as "nostalgic" as I would want to get, along with the 375 H&H. I've been doing a lot of shooting and reoading with the 300 H&H, but when the chips are down, give me my 300 Weatherby every time.

I thnk I'll stick with my original recommendations to you. jorge

375 HH and 270 Barns TSX on top of 76 grs of Vith N140 drops anything anywhere closer to 250 meters

500 Jeff and 535 Woodleigh SN and Solid on 105 and 102 grs of same powder stops anything anywhere at close range

Have a great day

quote:

Originally posted by El_Dodexe:
500 Jeff and 535 Woodleigh SN and Solid on 105 and 102 grs of same powder stops anything anywhere at close range

Have a great day

One problem with the 500 Jeffery, I've read it will be a pain to get it to feed properly. If you plan to get one you better find a good 'smith.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
but when the chips are down, give me my 300 Weatherby every time.

quote:

One problem with the 500 Jeffery, I've read it will be a pain to get it to feed properly. If you plan to get one you better find a good 'smith.

You're right my friend, BUT when you'll solve the feding problem with a good rifle, the caliber (for me) is one of best caliber with enough energy and manageable recoil for good shot placement (this is the key on all hunting pourpose).

Ciao

With a 470, you've got your DGR.

So why not an identical pair of stainless/synthetic 375's? If one goes down or you dedicate it to a hunt, you have the other as a backup.


Okie John

quote:

Originally posted by El_Dodexe:

quote:

One problem with the 500 Jeffery, I've read it will be a pain to get it to feed properly. If you plan to get one you better find a good 'smith.

You're right my friend, BUT when you'll solve the feding problem with a good rifle, the caliber (for me) is one of best caliber with enough energy and manageable recoil for good shot placement (this is the key on all hunting pourpose).

Ciao

Yeah, I absolutely agree that the 500 Jeffery is a very good round on DG, there is no question about that, and IF you find a good 'smith who can get it to feed right then you would have an excellent DGR. I mean, i'd prefer a .505 Gibbs, but the .500 Jeffery has great killing power. I'm not sure about what you said about the recoil of the rifle as i've never shot one(honestly... this is embarresing to say on the big bore forum but i've never shot a true big bore rifle). But i do agree it would be a superb choice for DG.