I have a Gun Smith friend who is making a Guide style bolt gun with the 450 marlin. He went out with a writer from "Rifle mag" to field test the gun, I don't remember who. They were getting 1/2 moa @ 100 yards and he might get a write up some time in the future. Any want more info let me know
Posts: 767 | Location: Phoenix, Az | Registered: 31 May 2001
It is a nice plinking round once you have move up to full power rounds. But for a large % of the shooters it has stiff recoil and since Marlin can only manage about 1.5 moa at least that is what I have read. He is getting alot better groups which improves the round to me. All in All it would be another toy to play with, maybe bust a pig in the side. RNS
Posts: 767 | Location: Phoenix, Az | Registered: 31 May 2001
Good job. As soon as this round came out, I figured it would be perfect as a woods whacker in a bolt rifle. The OAL means you don't have to mess with a standard 98 action any more than to file the rails for feeding. All the cutting and stretching as required to convert a 98 to 458 Win are not necessary. 3 shots are plenty.
I was very glad when the 450 Marlin came out since the woods are full of yo-yos who push their 45/70 brass and guns beyond reason. Although European hunters hate lever actions for aesthetic reasons, a bolt gun in 450 has a real chance of becoming a boar and stag whacker.
WOW... I know most handloaders are rolling their eyes. The big news break is that the 458X2 had now been around for eons (shhh dont tell 450 marlin owners that it might tick them off). Of course the 450 marlin will be necked down to every caliber by people believing it to be the next hottest wildcat platform... we will all be "snake fascinated" by the 416/450 marlin or the 375/450. Oh my has this been done before(no someone will tell how that minute belt dimension makes a difference)? I guess its exciting for those who dont reload, it does shoot jacketed wafers pretty fast. Please I dare someone to ask a MAJOR cartridge manufacture to produce hard cast 420s instead of 300 grn jacketed poker chips.
Posts: 2045 | Location: West most midwestern town. | Registered: 13 June 2001
Well, smallfry, you is basically right. But you haven't factored in Nimrod Numbnuts and his attorneys. I have it on good account that some smallbore belted mags will chamber in the 450 barrel - very bad. The simple, obvious and correct solution was to make the belt wider so that if this happened, the firing pin wouldn't (mightn't) hit the primer. Even scarier is the assertion that the 450 would chamber completely in a 300 Win Mag barrel were it not for the wider belt to prevent the bolt from closing on it.
Notice that the case is about 2.1", the same length as the old 45/70, and that it has seriously more jam than old man Barnes' 458x2" intended for potting NVA with silenced sniper rifles. Yes, there is nothing new under the sun but the 450 Marlin is a cartridge whose introduction should have been 30 years ago. Better late than never.
So what if some crazy wildcatter wants to stroke his ego by choking the case down? It's his money and his head he'll be blowing off if he screws up. At least it will give the gunwriters something to write about and us to read about!
I would generally agree, Ray, but you seem not to realize that the 450 marlin was developed specifically for the hunter who has neither the desire, ability nor opportunity for messing with handloads. Sure, the 350 gr Hornady medium load for the 458 has appealed to many but this is still a very powerful load and, as I understand it, the bullet is still too soft for the impact velocities involved, especially when shooting wapiti.
So, if handloading is not an option, then the 450 Marlin is a very interesting proposition for the woods hunter of large, non-dangerous game. Since something like 98% of European hunters are not handloaders (they would rather be hunting than tinkering around with rifles), the 450 in a bolt gun would be a very interesting proposition for the stag and boar hunter. It would have the same utility as a heavily loaded 45/70 but without the fuss. BTW, heavily loaded .45/70 ammo is illegal in Europe where all ammo must show a pressure as allowed by the CIP proof norms. Some friends of mine load heavy 45/70 on the QT but these are experienced men who know full well that if anything untoward should happen to them or their guns, they would not only have no legal options but could also be prosecuted for misdemeanor violations of the weapons laws. And since only the most iconclastic hunters use lever actions for hunting, putting the 450 up in an acceptable bolt action would make getting into one that much easier.
PS: Saw that goat hunt of yours on TV a couple days ago. Looks like hard work!
Thank you Ray... I agree. You wonder why the silly 458 winchester magnum isnt more popular with some, considering it is not a "long action cartridge", and considering they are trying to "get close" to it.
By the way... I hear that if you chop 150 grains off of a 500 grainer from a 450 nitro 3 1/4, reduce the velocity from 2150 to 1350, and shoot it out of a lever it becomes twice the gun it originally is... or some would like you to think so at least.
Posts: 2045 | Location: West most midwestern town. | Registered: 13 June 2001
I can see the allure of a 450 Marlin in a bolt-gun over using a loaded-down .458 WinMag. You can make a very nice, handy and light 450 Marlin and it would be a superb "woods" rifle whereas every .458 I've seen has more weight and barrel length than I would want to carry around...especially the weight. You can't compare a 7 pound bolt-action 450 Marlin and 9 or 10 pound .458 with light loads.
Posts: 4360 | Location: Sunny Southern California | Registered: 22 May 2002
I went to the local gun shop about 4 weeks ago and bought some 350 gr .458 from hornady and they were stocking 2 types #1 the soft older style and #2 the new tougher style. they both had different stock # I only wanted to punch some holes in a target so I got the old style any. So I guess that if the tougher bullets could get loaded into factory 450 marlin that would offer the non handloader some improvement. RNS
Posts: 767 | Location: Phoenix, Az | Registered: 31 May 2001
iv'e got one then. how about a .416 built off a blown out 350 mag case? i thought of the 458x2 or a 450 marlin bolt. looks like a no-branier on paper but the math says the recoil would be VERY real on the 450. a 7lb 450 would knock you silly. no fun at all if you ask me. the .416 i think would be a real nice meduim for the big bore short acion bolt gun. my $.02 adios........
The recoil of a Marlin 1895 or Ruger #1 .45/70 with hot loads will also slap you silly but that doesn't seem to deter handloaders with stars in their eyes. Still, a bolt gun in .450 Marlin shouldn't weigh less than 8-1/2 lbs all-up.
DB Bill I too see the allure. Problem is that manufactures seem to like to make 9 lb rifles. Someone might wind-up making a one.
The 450 incidently, probably wont "steal" the hearts of many European hunters. If you havent notice they have a whole slew of their own fascinating cartridges, and generaly stay away from MANY American ones... I know its the dream of many Marlin lovers that crates of 450s and 45-70 guide guns will be shipped all over the world... proving that their fears were unwarrented and that the world now owes them a "thank you" for the truth.
shoot strait
Posts: 2045 | Location: West most midwestern town. | Registered: 13 June 2001
Hi! heavily loaded ammo is not illegal in Europe but when you handload your own ammo you are not allowed to sell it unless you don�t have an permission for that. It is no risk that you vill be prosecuted for misdemeanor violations of the weapons laws if you only use the ammo by your self. I�ve think is the same in US if you hurt someone with ammo made by your self an give it to someone that thinks is OK to use it, and the ammo blows up in his face I've vill think that you can get prosecuted for that even in US. Regarding 450 Marlin so was mine fascination that the guide gun is a small gun with a lot of stopping power. I am going to use the gun at the moose hunt and on fast running boars in ruff woods. Why European hunters hate lever actions is not for aesthetic reasons but that they in the past has not shooting some well. But I've, including myself, notice a coming interest for lever action guns, the price is fair,even as the $ is expensive for us here in Sweden at the moment. Comparing to a dubbelgun in a big caliber as for example a Krieghoff in 9,3X74R cost 4000$ so is the Marlin in 450 a good buy. So I�ve hope that I can tell you "over there" how the boars and moose thinks about the 450 marlin in the fall. Jonas
shoot strait