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My problem with this is that it seems most people think that this same ol Zastava made rifle is somehow going better now that it has Remington stamped on it. I don't care what they stamp on it as long as it is not overpriced for what it is. What pisses me off about Remington is the fact that they are not going to sell actions only. I think this is a mistake. Here was a madern commercial mauser action that could be purchased by the common man and he could still afford to build a poor man's custom. Now you have to buy the whole rifle (dog turd stock and all) just to get what you are really after. Not to mention it is priced $200 more than when Chuck Daly was peddling them. | |||
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There you go. | |||
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I think I see something about what you just said, El Caballero and gixxer... ( of course, now that I AM having a beer, a lot of things might look better!  )From a marketing perspective, it behooves Remington to sell entire rifles, hence the mark-up for having a stock on the action. Charles Daly probably didn't sell a lot of rifles, and possibly even fewer 'actions only'. From a 'gun nut' perspective, such as we see here on the Forum, getting the action only to build a custom rifle is the norm. Which brings me back to my former comments about contacting Remington about making sure they present the rifle in the best possible light, to inform the 'unwashed', and therefore sell a LOT of rifles! People that frequent gun forums are more likely to be better informed; more likely to buy the rifle to get the action; and therefore more likely to be 'well-heeled' enough to afford the entire gun as a basis with which to work from in their quest to build a 'custom'. That's the logic I see in it, anyway. For the general population that would just like to get a really good gun for hunting, the more we can do on our end as informed consumers to assist Remington in getting their product out is a good thing. I hope this post was a little more palatable...  ____________________________________________ Did I mention, "I REALLY LIKE GUNS"? "...I don't care what you decide or how much you pay for it..." Former FFL Dealer NAHC Life Member NRA Endowment/Life Member Remington Society of America Member Hunter in Training | |||
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I would really like to handle one before I pass judgement. If I pick one up and really like the way it feels, balances and points. My mind will be made up. But just like any other over the counter rifle, it will need some fine tuning at a competent gunsmith. The one thing that jumped out at me is the fact that it is not chambered for the 416 RM. Buy one in 243 for varmints. buy another in 30-06/300WM and one more in 416 RM and you would have all need for everything in the world. All in a CRF action if it suits your fancy. | |||
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I think you missed my point. So I'll try to make it better. I have nothing against Remington; I just don't think having that name makes a Zastava worth $200 more than it cost last year with Charles Daly on it. Just like an EAA Bakail shotgun wasn't worth $100 more just for stamping "Spartan" on it. And I certainly know the action names I called out (add Whitworth to the list and early Interarms) have much better fit and finish than the mausers that Zastava has been producing since importation began again, regardless of the branding. So the point really is that you are not getting as good of a value in the new Remington and you're paying $200 extra for the privilege. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Unwashed. Thats putting it into perspective. It reminds me of the gun shows here in the local area. They advertise "gun show prices" like its supposed to be a deal, but actually they mark up their shit so the "Unwashed" just walk in there and believe anything the seller tells em. "This is a great deal, look around. I have the best prices out of all the other tables here." Yeah right, but they are still on drugs with the prices they charge. As far as the mark up just cause theres a stock on it, I was under the impression that CD sold whole rifles also. More or less, us "informed" folk that frequent the forums know whats up, and if they dont want to spend the money, they will take their business elsewhere. As far as sending Remmy an e mail asking them why they have marked up the price, they would probably feed us some marketing term like you are paying for "craftsmanshit(p)", but they would not lower their price until sales sucked for a year, and then discontinue the model before they lower the price. How bout that angle? Thoughts? | |||
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Good angle and good answers, all. I know I post some controversial and conflagatory crap a high percentage of the time...  ...but this is a great Forum with high quality folks and extreme experience to prod!  We really should be hammering the MFG. instead of each other. One thing is for sure: In our lifetimes, the MFG. has never before had the ability to accept feedback like they can today with the internet making it possible. I'm going to contact Remington and basically challenge them to pick up the ball and run for a Touchdown. Anybody else want to do that and check back when you're done?  ____________________________________________ Did I mention, "I REALLY LIKE GUNS"? "...I don't care what you decide or how much you pay for it..." Former FFL Dealer NAHC Life Member NRA Endowment/Life Member Remington Society of America Member Hunter in Training | |||
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The Chas Daly guns were really crappy. The Mk X's were a bit rough internally, but could be pollished up well. The Sears Mod 50/51 were great guns but only available in 270 & 06. They had a two-piece trigger which was easy to replace. The Mk X's had great barrels...Bohler from Germany. I wonder who makes their current barrels? | |||
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Were the Zastava barreled actions exported to be sold as Whitworths better? Were Zastavas built to be sold by Interarms better than Zastavas built to be sold by Daly? Does anyone have the inside scoop that the Zastava barreled actions to be built for Remington are of the same (possibly low) quality control that the Daly imports were? I would hope that when these barreled actions are stocked and final fitted by Remington that the finished product will be closer to the quality control of the better Zastavas made in the past. If Remington will be offering large calibers w/ sights for DG (from what others have posted) it sounds to me that the final product may end up closer to the Whitworth and less like a Daly. Hope so anyway. Gary | |||
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A friend of mine has several MArk Xs. In the past two years I bought (2) left hand Charles Daley actions. Viewing the Mark Xs & the Daley side by side..........show them to be identical in fit, finish and function. | |||
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I think the later Mk Xs and the Charles Daly guns are about on par with each other. The Whitworths were definitely better finished as are the early Mk Xs. At the later stages of the story, it appears that Interarms bought up a bunch of inventory already stamped Whitworth and sold that as actions and barreled actions. The difference is in the last 5% of effort. That happens to be where the last 75% of value lies. If you can find a 40s or 50s action from the aforementioned brands that is original, put it side by side with any MK X and you'll see much straighter lines and much sharper corners. Fewer internal tool marks too. Little things like the checkering on the underside of the bolt is actually cut instead of stamped; the lever in the trigger bow instead of the shotgun style floorplate release, etc. The Charles Dalys are very functional and I'm sure the Remingtons will be too. But I stand on my original postion about the pricing. It will kill the whole project. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Gentlemen, my only real knocks on the 798 are the stock and the price. I prefer a classic-styled stock, in walnut, with good quality checkering. If a stainless version were offered, I would want it stocked in a synthetic material or laminate, but classic-styled. Regarding Zastava Mausers, I have owned 3 Whitworths, a Mini Mauser and 4 other Mark Xs and my experience since they were first offered in the 1970s is that they are very accurate and functional but the interior machining of the action and quality of polishing and overall finish can vary alot. However, I have also owned many more Belgium FN-actioned rifles and all have superior fit, finish and machining quality- either JC Higgins or other house-brand FNs but especially factory FN Sporters. Put the finest Mark X next to any factory FN Sporter and there is no comparison. Perhaps $599 is simply what it costs to offer this rifle today but it seems like alot to me. One can still find plenty of superior Higgins M50s and their ilk for $250-$350 or a really fine factory FN Sporter for $550 upwards. As far as contacting Remington about what I think, I did at the NRA show. They didn't seem to care. NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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I had the Remington/Zastava rifle high on my list when I went to The SHOT Show. I had also emailed the factory in Serbia for an interview, and they fixed me up with the names of staff that would be in Las Vegas. In my opinion Remington stole Zastava away from Charles Daly by offering them a multi-year deal, when CD was one year at a time. Additional variations of the models are planned. I also examined the M798 in the Remington booth: wow, I haven't smelled cosmolene that strongly since I was converting military rifles in the 60s! I also had a good chat with another US maker who wants to import actions or barreled actions (you would recognize the name). The point is Remington does what they do, and they are not a parts supplier. For those that this applies to, let your knots unwind. There is more to come. jim if you're too busy to hunt,you're too busy. | |||
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