Now i think i know

01 April 2002, 20:52

Overkill

Now i think i know

If you shoot a moose with a fast 308 Warbird or 30-378 wby, then the hole dont get bigger than the expanded diameter of the bullet. But the meat around the hole is black/ dead meat, becauce the high velocity and the energy the bullet left. But does the bigger black/or dead meat kill faster...? does the more meat damage kill faster...?

I know that if you are shooting a moose with a fast caliber and the moose havenï¿½t seen you then it is possible to kill it by shock, but if the angry moose or bear is running at you then you cant kill it by shock. Then i think that the bullet from the 577 T-REX will stop the bear faster because the bigger wound channels, and it have much more bone breaking power than any 30 caliber.

Does the velocity of the bullet do the Black/ or dead meat around the hole or is it the energy the bullet leave when it expand...?

The higer velocity or energy will not do bigger wound channels. The hole in the game is just as big as the expanded bullet diameter. Isnï¿½t that right...?

And the last question of this post, what does the energy do inside the animal, when the bullet leave energy does it broke blood vessels or what...?

Some buddy who want to answer my questions??? Thanks.....!

02 April 2002, 09:35

Shultz&larsen

I read an atricle by the well known norwegian gun guru Jï¿½rund Lien there he describe the effects of an 300 rem ultra mag on mooseat 30 m. it was a an exit wound from the hip to the middle of the chest. the picture of the skinned mosse was showing that it was true. it vas totaly blown away.

01 April 2002, 23:00

Overkill

How will that be possible...?

01 April 2002, 23:03

Overkill

What do you think guys is it because the velocity is so high....?

01 April 2002, 23:33

HiWall

When the bullet goes in it has got push energy, this pushes lots of meat loose from the moose. When the bullet goes out it has got suck energy, this sucks the loose moose meat out and makes a much bigger hole than the hole going in. Of course the .300 bullet expands in the moose and this increases the suck energy. If you use a .577 Tyranasaurus Rex the bullet doesn't expand so much but it was already bigger so it has got plenty of suck energy too.
I dont know about the black meat though, maybe it was a black moose.

02 April 2002, 00:22

Overkill

HiWall,

Do you say that the 577 T-REX bullets dont expand much, these guys here who have 577 T-REX and 585 Nyati says that if you load the 750 grain woodleigh soft nose bullet to 2400-and up to 2600 it is going to blow up...!

What is going to happend to the moose if a 750 grains bullet blow up in the shoulder...?

02 April 2002, 00:29

Overkill

Hiwall,

Dont you know what black meat is, when the bullet smack in to the animlal the meat around the hole is dead and it is black.

02 April 2002, 00:33

Overkill

What do you guys think about the 900 grain woodleigh bullet, would it expand on smaller game like the swedish moose if you load it to 2300 f/s in a 577 T-REX....?

Isnï¿½t here any buddy who have done expansion test with the 900 grains woodleigh bullet...?

02 April 2002, 04:01

<BMG>

"...smaller game like the swedish moose..."

Now I know you are hunting dinosaurs ;-)

A well placed 900gr bullet will kill anything on this earth living OR extinct. Shot placement, not just bullet size although that helps, is key.

02 April 2002, 04:30

wildbill

as posted by another veterinarian, its the amount of light you let in. thats why bigger holes are better and bigger bullets make bigger holes thus quicker kills.

02 April 2002, 04:45

<Daryl Elder>

The blackened meat looks that way because of the hydrostatic shock caused by high velocity. Living tissue is composed mostly of water and transmits energy very well. The shockwave travelling through the tissue causes vessels etc. to burst and the blood free-flows and makes the meat appear bruised--and it is. This bruised meat will also "turn" quicker than the rest of the meat so it is important to cut it out/off ASAP after the game is down.

02 April 2002, 05:43

Kentucky Nimrod

I think what you are learning is that the thing that stops and animal is not neccessarily the same thing that will kill and animal. There re lots of wounds that will kill an animal--some quickly some not so quick. But the ONLY way to turn off the lights is to cause massive blood loss and immediate drop in blood pressure. This turns off the brain very quickly and the animal will die very quickly. Major damage to central nervous system will also drop an animal in its tracks. "Shock" value is very interesting to discuss but of little practical value in stopping animals.
Gawd, I can't believe I'm feeding the bears...

02 April 2002, 06:47

Recono

quote:
Originally posted by Overkill:
1. Does the velocity of the bullet do the Black/ or dead meat around the hole or is it the energy the bullet leave when it expand...?
2. The higer velocity or energy will not do bigger wound channels. The hole in the game is just as big as the expanded bullet diameter. Isnï¿½t that right...?
3. And the last question of this post, what does the energy do inside the animal, when the bullet leave energy does it broke blood vessels or what...?

1. I think that it is a shock wave which happens only when the velocity is high enough.

2. I think you are right, although I think that in extreme cases it can be bigger, especially if the bullet hits a bone.

3. Energy is used in a lot of ways. Sometimes it just pushes meat aside and doesn't even hurt the animal much (creation of temporary cavity without meat getting "bloodshot"). Much of it is used in creating the permanent wound channel. Even more may be used in travelling hundreds of yards past the moose and digging into a tree, or deep into the ground. It is also used in expanding the bullet. For purposes of predictions, energy may be one of the LEAST useful of the statistics of ballistics, mostly because it encourages people to look at terminal ballistics more simplistically than they need to.

02 April 2002, 07:29

Overkill

I think that the energy of the bullet is used to expand the bullet and then to go as deep as possible.

If you shoot game with a 577 NE and a solid bullet and the same bullet in the 577 T-REX then it is going to go much deeper because the T-REX have much more energy.

And if you shoot a moose with a 308 Warbird with a hard bullet like the swift, it is going to do more damage than a 308 win with the same bullet. Because the 308 warbird have more energy and then the bullet can expand to a bigger diameter and go deeper.

02 April 2002, 09:04

Recono

OK,

I think you are basically on the right track. Just remember that more energy doesn't ALWAYS make a bullet expand more (like solids), and sometimes more energy just makes the bullet go deeper into the tree or the ground. Also, and I think you know this already, the "more energy" argument usually works only when caliber and bullet are the same. You can't usually compare energy figures with different calibers.

02 April 2002, 16:19

<coon>

OverKill,

I believe the "black meat" is from powder burns. This is due to the powder trail following the bullet due to the "suck" of a big bullet at high velocity. I think, also, that is how "black holes" in space are started. Some dimwit shooting a .557 T-Rex into the air...

Energy is Energy. If the moose were charging it would create more energy because of Bullets energy + moose's energy = more energy. This is all in respect to how close to breeding season it is (both for moose and hunter)!

Thanks for the laughs...

Coon

03 April 2002, 01:35

Johnny Ringo

Overkill,
Why do you insist on using such big guns??
You seem to have a fetish with them.
Let me tell you all you need to know about those guns
1. Ammunition is so expensive you won't be able to afford to practice - then you'll be posting "What is wrong with my gun?"

2. Recoil is more than the VAST majority of users can handle.

3. A 30.06 or similar will do the job on moose just as well.

You have posted this question on dead meat etc many times.....when do you suppose the answers will sink in??

[This message has been edited by Johnny Ringo (edited 04-02-2002).]

03 April 2002, 03:44

308winchester

I think a 180 grain 308win bullet, that expands to almost dobble diameter and is found in the skin on the other side is the best moose killer. (Not nosler partation)
I aim for the heart/lungs and only shoot from the side. Max range is about 180m.
No need for anything bigger on scandinavian moose. It is no buffalo. Why waste meat by shooting at it with a cannon?
One I know uses a .308 with a light swift a frame (Under 9 grams) for moose. He is a part time butcher and can't stand wasting meat.

Johan

[This message has been edited by 308winchester (edited 04-03-2002).]

04 April 2002, 03:05

<eldeguello>

I shot a large mulie buck at about 40 yards once with a 140 grain 7mm Nosler Partition bullet that was moving about 3300 feet per second when it hit him behind the last rib on the left side. The deer was running quartering away from me to the left, and the bullet travelled diagonally forward and struck the right shoulder joint. The bullet exited after blowing the right shoulder joint to fragments. There was no edible meat AT ALL in the right front quarter of this deer!!

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Larry