What years was the 10.75x68 introduced?
I received a copy of, "The Mauser Archive", for Christmas. In it is a photograph of an early Oberndorf Mauser sporter from 1909 in 10.75x68. My copy of "Cartridges of the World" indicates 1920 as when this round was first introduced. Does anyone have any solid historical info for this round? Just curious. Thanks

I've read the 10.75x68 was catalog introduced in 1911 but I have zero evidence to substantiate or refute either 1911 or 1920.

My reference says 192?

Jon Speed's register documents several from 1908. "Cartridges of the World" is full of errors.

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Originally posted by fla3006:
Jon Speed's register documents several from 1908. "Cartridges of the World" is full of errors.

Well, 1908 may not be the actual year of introduction, but it seems a lot closer than 1920.

Ludwig Olson's reference book 'Mauser Bolt Rifles' contains a chart of the accuracy of the Oberndorf Sporter Mausers taken from Mauser's catalogue of 1910 and the 10.75x68 is listed in this chart so the round must have been introduced before that date.

Found another photo in "The Mauser Archive" of a 10.75x68 rifle. It says, "...probably produced circa 1904. This would pre-date the 404 jeff I suppose.

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Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:
Found another photo in "The Mauser Archive" of a 10.75x68 rifle. It says, "...probably produced circa 1904. This would pre-date the 404 jeff I suppose.

The 404 Jeffery had to be developed in 1904 to be advertised in 1905 so not sure you could say the 10.75x68 predated the Jeffery

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Originally posted by Von Gruff:

quote:

Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:
Found another photo in "The Mauser Archive" of a 10.75x68 rifle. It says, "...probably produced circa 1904. This would pre-date the 404 jeff I suppose.

The 404 Jeffery had to be developed in 1904 to be advertised in 1905 so not sure you could say the 10.75x68 predated the Jeffery

I like those rifle prices back than

Pyzda

quote:

I like those rifle prices back then

Pyzda

Yes good aren't they but we wouldn't have like the wages then

Pierre van der Walt has 7 pages of his book, AFRICAN DANGEROUS GAME CARTRIDGES, discussing the 10.75x68mm Mauser cartridge, pp 270-276.
He devotes the first page of this chapter in his book to just this question of date of origin.
He references the Jon Speed books, COTW, and the W. B. Dixon book EUROPEAN SPORTING CARTRIDGES (Volume One).

I have perused all these.
I think it boils down to the research of W. B. Dixon.

The 10.75x68mm Mauser was cataloged by one ammo maker or another starting in 1909.
These included: DWM, RWS, Gecado, Kynoch, and more.

The scan of the catalog page from Jeffery is of the "1912-1913 Season" facsimile edition.
I have a copy of that too.
I think it has been very well established that the 404 Jeffery started up in 1905 in England.
The Germans caught on with their similar 10.75x73mm Mauser sometime after that.

The Austrians and Germans did originate the 10.75 cartridges like the 10.75x63, 10.75x57, etc. earlier than the 10.75x68.

The 10.75x68mm Mauser is just a longer-necked version of the 10.75x63mm Mauser, which came one year before, circa 1908, according to W. B. Dixon.

The 10.75x63mm Mauser is easily converted to 10.75x68mm Mauser by the application of a neck and throat reamer to lengthen the chamber.
Some of the very early Mausers of 10.75mm-caliber were undoubtedly converted from 63mm to 68mm length, etc.
Changing the "63" to a "68" on the barrel engraving would also be very easy.
This may cause some confusion regarding dates of origin of the rifle of particular chambering.

I do not think any of the "10.75xXXmm Mauser" cartridges predate the 404 Jeffery of 1905 British origin.
The 404 Jeffery was the first ever, and still best ever, truly adequate bolt-action-magazine rifle for dangerous game.

The .404 can be used effectively on VERY large dangerous game, assuming you know how to shoot.

MORE DANGEROUS GAME

I have an original Mauser 10,75x68 with 700mm long barrel with the first three digits of the serial number is 257xx. Based on the Speed's data collection it is therefore manufactured in 1908.
It is an interesting theory that early rifle have been converted from 10,75x63 and the fact that early rifles before World War I, are marked just with 10,5 is not helping to clarify.
However at least this shows that there is no need for changing the case lenght caliber engraving from 10,75x63 to 68 as this was not given on early rifles.
In all my 35 years of Mauser gun collecting, I have not seen an original manufacturerd 10,75x63, so I personaly dare to doubt there ever exist as an original Mauser chambering.

Robert

Robert,
Thanks for that.
W. B. Dixon does discuss the 10.5mm designation,
early on, later becoming 10.75mm.

Here are scans of page 122 of Dixon.
This is a review of the book:

It is a good book.
If there is a second volume after the first, I want it.
From page # 122:




It is interesting to note that the headstamp is the same for both the 10.75x63 and the 10.75x68 cartridges,
except for some extra "illegigible" after the "515" on the 10.75x68mm Mauser.
These are actual cartridges that were photographed for the book.

From a prospective of modern monometal bullets the 10.75x63 would be the preferable cartridge...

Hummmm... I wonder if RWS, DWM, or Mauser did a 63mm 'G' series cartridge smaller than the 9.3mm? If not, why not? If so, might make an interesting pairing with the 10.75mm

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

I like those rifle prices back then

Pyzda

Yes good aren't they but we wouldn't have like the wages then

True, also looking at the cost of the loaded ammo you wouldn't practice too much either.

Pyzda

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

I like those rifle prices back then

Pyzda

Yes good aren't they but we wouldn't have like the wages then

At least there was a lot of game in Africa to use it on.

I recall shooting my friends 10,75x63 on a range in Germany when he was working up some loads for this cartridge. I don't remember what the rifle was but I'm sure it would have been a good one as he was into collecting old and expensive guns as well has having new ones made in Ferlach, Austria.

Looking at the cartridge in the page from Dixon in RIP's post above, the bullet in the 10.75x63 cartridge looks identical to the 347gr bullets I have for my 404, given to me by my German friend.

I remember well though that the 10.75x63 was delay firing badly when we were testing some loads. I don't know what powder he was using, I suspect a low load of slow powder, but we knocked off the testing fairly quickly after firing only a few rounds.

With another German friend I also got to shoot his 10.75x47 Belgian double rifle (Mauser conical head cases) using swaged 365gr Hornady 44cal projectiles. We managed to get it to regulate fairly well but never saw him use it for hunting.

Hello RIP,

thanks for the copy - very interesting indeed.
I am not a cartridge collector but I have a 9,3x63 cartridge and was unclear if it was developed before or after the 9,3x62.

Robert

Ron,

The extra character on the .10.75x63 is the letter 'A' - as in '515A'- the DWM print designation for the cartridge.

Yep, in the table.