Basically I am looking for a rifle that can hit targets at 3000 to 4000m?I guess a 7.62 Nato will not due!Is there anything any of you folk can recommend?The targets will be the size of sillhoutes!!!!!!!!!!!

I hear the "USS Missourie" is in mothballs. Maybe you can buy the 16" 3-gun turrent cheap on the surplus market. Save some money fer powder though cos 1 shot burns 600lbs!!!

408 Cheyenne Tactical is supposed to do just that. There was a lengthy article (ad) for it in Precision Shooting magazine. Do a search for it in a search engine.
Peter.

Regarding the 408 CheyTac, some data should be available on Lost River Ballistic's website. Mr. Dean Michaelis has posted MOA targets shot at 2500 yards with their ammo in an EDM Windrunner rifle and is part of the development team.

Targets at the ranges you seek in my opinion, are best engaged by a rifle with wheels and a carriage and a crew of grunts, but that's just my opinion. No, 7.62 just isn't gonna make it! Best of luck!

Redial

Very interesting. You guys need to go read the "Them Boys Can Shoot?" topic over under "Miscellaneous".

.408 CheyTac site: www.cheyennetactical.com

Snipers Paradise also has some good info on the .408

Edit: 3500m is a bit long even for the .408

[ 07-10-2002, 03:38: Message edited by: Cardinal ]

The .408 CheyTac is a .505 Gibbs necked to .408. They claim MOA or 23 inches at 2300 yrds. I would like to see three successive targets shot at that distance that were MOA or better. Not one, but three.
I have a homebrew .50 BMG that I've fired in FCSA competition that has shot sub 5 inch groups at 1000 yrds. ( yes I have the patch to prove it). At 2500 yrds I'd consider 25 inch groups a miracle! Don't believe all the hype. Few people have ever even hit anything at 2500 yrs . Most scopes run well out of adjustment range well before this and just how many shooters can read the wind well enough at 2500 yrds to even stay on target.
If I really wanted to hit something at 3500ms, I'd use artillery and a good Foreward observer. An F-16 would also work well!-Rob

Rob;
I'm sure you read Talbot's article about shooting the .50 BMG at what I belive was 2300 yards, shooting at quite large boulders. Even he could not score a first round hit so I belive you are correct, shooting at these type of ranges is better left of artillery. Even if your rifle is capable of 1/2 MOA that is still a 17+" group at 3500 meters, and that is not taking into account wind. I ran a quick check on a BC bullet of 1.000, 3700 fps, 5 mph cross wind, and at 3500 yards the wind drift was 233 inches. Even a 1 mph wind pushed the bullet 46.6 inches. How can one even hope to make a first round hit on a man sized target at that range without a divine dose of luck? I'd have to see it to believe it, and more than once at that.

FWIW-
Precision Shooting has run several articles about Bruce Artus and Kreg Slack; gunsmiths who are into EXTREME RANGE shooting.

They both shoot at a 16inch steel gong. Kreg Slack hit it at 3120 yards. He then hit a Prairie Dog 5 yards beyond (on his 4th shot). He used a .308 Winchester Improved and a 220gr MatchKing. Rifle was built on a Winchester Model 70 action. Scope mounts were custom-built. Rear is about 5 inches above the action (it needs to be that high up to see over the barrel because it's tilted down so far). Using a Leupold scope boosted to 18-50x, he could only go to 40x before mirage became too thick. At that power and distance, he only had a 30-minute window in the morning and evening with conditions that would allow the shot.

Bruce Artus hit the gong at 3600 yards using a .338 Lapua Magnum Improved. I believe he used a 300gr MatchKing. I don't remember much more about his shot. All the articles are in the book "Precision Shooting at 1,000 Yards", available through the PS website.

I have to agree with the guys who say forget about it. It can be done, but not by anything approching "tactical". That kind of shooting may be fun, but it has no practical application. (Would you sit still if the first shot missed? I sure wouldn't fire at an animal at that distance)

Having said that, I'm going to build a rifle with the intent of firing a 10-shot, sub-MOA group at a mile. I'm thinking tight-neck .338 Lapua Magnum. I'll use a Hall action on 1,000yard Heavy Gun. It has a lead-filled fiberglass stock and will weigh about 65 pounds. It will be at least a year before I can fire it. I'm in the National Guard and I'm getting deployed soon.

Pure Evil,
Do mommie and daddy know you are using the 'puter for such trash?

I'm sure with enough "tries" I too could hit a gong at 3600 yards. The question is how many. It's frankly an issue of gaussian distribution. Accuracy and precision. Assume the rifle is accurate enough at that range to hit a 16 inch gong. Thats what, slightly less than .5MOA. My Homebuilt .50 BMG has turned in numerous .2 MOA groups at 500 yrds or better. However, what is the distributuion of shots likely to occur at 3600 yrds due to wind and shooter sighting error( Ever look through a 36X not to mention a 50 X scope?) I know of no optics that are up to it and the mirage is a killer. Looks like a view from the bottom of a swimming pool. This combined error has got to be 200 inches or more and I'm being very generous ( what about a 5 MPH crosswind?) You can then calculate the probability of a first shot hit. about 1 in 100 tries or so! Not good IMHO.
I know Skip Talbot very well and he has beaten the pants off of me many times. I know of no one with as much trigger time behind him and after all he does hold the worlds record. I've also been priveleged to learn a heck of alot about building super accurate rifles from him and yes I've seen the results obtained by him and others shooting at the Rock. It frankly proves my point exactly. This subject in fact is sort of a joke at FCSA.
Unfortunately, the gun world is cursed by articles written puposely to mislead people into thinking that they can just go out and buy a " .5 MOA WINDRUNNER" or .338 Lapua or some such junk and be instantly capable of shooting prarie dogs with first shot hits at 3600 yrds or more. It just isn't going to happen that way. Yup, somebody will make that 1 in 100 shot and they everybody will believe they can do it every time.
at 3600 yrds artillery is good!-Rob

[ 07-10-2002, 22:38: Message edited by: Robgunbuilder ]

I would have to concur with what's shaping up to be the prevailing sentiment here. Just because it can be done or has been done, proves little. What can be done on demand is the Electric Kool Aid Acid Test for any system.

Every one of us target shooters has cleaned a target or string or relay at one time or another. How many of us can repeat our performance on each try? Hell, I have a whole folder full of "bragging targets" that strangely don't reflect my usual scores I wouldn't have kept them if they were the norm.

This esoteric conundrum IS fun to ponder, though. Break out the slide rules!

Redial

Dear DaggaRon,

Thanks for the feedback but who said this rifle will be used on animals?So fuck you da!!!

Pure Evil,
O.K. punk, it is obvious that you are more stupid than I thought. Of course I did not think that your childish banter in the initial post was about shooting animals. You will never be worthy of that.

Mommie and daddie need to get a web nannie for you.

This site has been crawling with all kinds of creepy little snots lately. You are too stupid to be Bill Tibbe. Mondele? Is that you? Way past your bedtime ain't it? You really ought to get your head out of the commode and quit bobbing for turds.

Go ahead punk, make my day ... buzzards gotta eat same as worms. Patooey.

AMFYOYO