I would like to buy one of the new Biakil rifles in 45-70, when they become available. I would then want to have it re-chambered to 458Win Mag. Is this possible/safe to do? A poor man's double rifle! If not, would a 45-70 with hot Garrett loads be adequate for Cape Buffalo? Thanks Wolf

Wolfie,
NEVER try to use a belted magnum in a double rifle. Those things are designed for rimmed cartridges and you will get into untold barrels of trouble trying to get the damned things to eject or extract properly. Belted cartridges (bless 'em) work like charms in bolt guns but even though some European makers have chambered them into doubles, it is a bad, dumb, how-can-win-me-one-o'-themthere-Darwin-Award ideas.

Now the current state of the art po'boys double rifle seems to be rechambering a Pedersoli 45/70 hammergun for .450 NE or .450 #2. Fella in Oklahoma named McKool seems to have perfected the process and I would ask him whether he'd feel comfortable doing the same job on a Baikel. If it worked, it would be the ultimate low-budget double. Let us know what you find out, huh?

eaa says "Feb" at the earlist..

do a search on mp-221 in this forum, I posted why

jeffe

I have one of the 30.06 doubles from Baikal. It leaves a lot to be desired. The Valmet 412 is much superior in accuracy and general quality. The Baikal is built like a tank but it does have the slightest tendency to double. The BRNO 7x57 is a nice O/U double.

He's talking about the mp221, side by side, as the valmet are not available in 45/70

http://www.eaacorp.com/firearms/rifles/sidebyside/izhmp221t.shtml



Someone correct me, but I thought the valmet WAS the Tikka, which is now the biakal?

jeffe

Dr. Duc, I think what Wolfgar is refereing to is their Side by side double rifle, not the O/U one! Unless something has come to pass lately, the side by side is not yet available in the USA.

Can you re-chamber to 458 Win Mag? The answer is YES, you can re-chamber it to 458 Win Mag! Is it a good idea? "NO" Absolutely not! First off the 458 Win Mag is a high pressure cartridge, and the cartridge is not suited to even fine quality double rifles, it would ba a disasterous idea IMO! The Biakil is made for low pressure rounds like the 45-70 factory ammo,which only posts about 28,000 psi, and one should be very careful with even warm 45-70 handloads in it.

Some say well the thing is chambered for 30-06 which developes 50,000 psi chamber pressure! That is true,BUTTTTT the 30-06 has a whole bunch more steel around it, in the chamber, than it would chambered for 458 Win Mag, and the 30-06 is not well suited to this rifle either, IMO! Not just being a rimless but because of the pressure,as well!

The second thing is the extractors would have to be re-designed to handle the belted rimless case head of the 458 Win Mag. A very costly undertaking! In my opinion, the results of this conversion, would not be worth the effort, and also,IMO be dangerous!

If you are set on this, I reccomend the 458 RCBS, a wildcat which is simply a long 45-70 with a 2.75" case, or if you can get McKool to do it, the 450NE 3.25", or even better, and lower pressure, would be the 450#2 NE, which only developes less than 30,000 psi chamber pressure, and all are flanged (rimmed) cases!

Personally, I can not see how even slave labor can put together a S/S double rifle for $650 USD that is safe to shoot, much less convert to anything seriously approching the 458 Win Mag!

About the cheapest you will get out with anything that is of any value, IMO is re-chambering a Pedersoli 45-70 to 450#2 NE, and that is going to cost you about $4500 by the time you shoot it! Even then, the thing may not regulate, and need re-regulateing, for another $500+ cost of ammo! The Pedersoli will take the pressure of 450#2 easily, and if you are lucky it will regulate without further work!

PS: I might consider one chambered for 45-70, and leave it that way, and NO 45-70 is not a Cape Buffalo round! It would make a nice deer,Hog, Moose, and black bear rifle in 45-70, however!

[ 09-14-2003, 17:54: Message edited by: MacD37 ]

its name is Baikal, not bakail or other. (name of the deepest lake in the World) . . it is somethink like Onkatario lake or New Yeork . . .just don't like american arrogancy, sorry

Jiri

Jiri we all know you hate americans. I think it was a simple mistake in spelling ...not some american plot.

Your life must be a cold, bitter and barren place if you want to start a fight over something this silly.

urdubob

[ 09-18-2003, 02:26: Message edited by: urdubob ]

Boy Jiri, I really can't wait until the next time you make an error typing. I'll be on that like flies on.... well you know.

TSK! TSK! TSK! Jiri, what is the matter with you? You are are posting to a person who owns, and uses many CZeck firearms, and I find them to be well made! "Beikal",( you notice I didn't misspell it this time,I am recovering from Cancer surgery on my left hand, and am typeing with one hand, and though I'm not the best speller, in the world, the spelling of your lake was a typo)! No matter how you spell the name, they are well made. That fact, in no way,makes it suited to, or strong enough to be re-cahmbered to 458 Win Mag, no matter what you think!

I fail to see what is arrogant about stateing that fact! IMO, Jiri, you are simply a sore-head that is bracing for a fight, with someone who has no animosity toward you, or your country! Your attitude simply amazes me!

Wolfgar...

The 45-70 with the right loads would be fine for Cape Buff! Look at Vince Lupo of SCI fame who bagged all of the African Big 6 with a Marlin Lever and Garrett loads! He says the loads worked as well as any DG cartidge available.

Some people here will tell you it's luck. Not so.

"just don't like american arrogancy, sorry"

Jiri, I don't like arrogance either. Whether it's American, Russian, or Czech. I saw no arrogance from a simple spelling error however. Your back must be killing you from carrying such a large chip on your shoulders!

Dear Jirri,
Lighten up tough guy! My spelling error was just a mistake, you are just kidding right?
Maybe we are a bit arrogant, but who cares if the world likes it or not. Where the hell is the Check republicck anyway? Never mind, I could care less! Wolf