I may be lucky enough to go for brown bear in Alaska this year. I figure my stainless steel Model 70 in 404 Jeff should be a good choice.

Any suggestions on which bullet, Woodleigh, Northfork or???

BigB

Woodleigh bullets are cheaper; NorthForks offer controlled expansion.

Both will probably work well enough to kill a bear.

Buy American; buy NorthForks.

George

Another smart man with a 10" twist McGowen stainless M70.

North Forks are only about a buck a bullet, best value in the world!

I took a 1300 pound bison, meat-bull, this past October with one shot: 380 grain North Fork soft Point.

There is no better bear bullet than that.

It spewed blood and lungs out of the large entrance rib hole, mushed the lungs and clipped the great vessels off the top of the heart and fractured both the humerus and scapula of the off side shoulder.

The bison staggered about 18 yards and fell over stone dead.

Recipe: North Fork 380 grain SP, 83 grains of Varget, Norma brass, GM215M primer, 2528 fps MV in 83 degree F, slower in October in Nebraska.

It seems like a mild load in my rifle, which has a 24" barrel of same make as yours.

Some question my pressures, so you might want to try H4350 if you want to go that fast.

Unlike the Woodlieghs (which I love) the North Forks you'll probably actually be able to GET!

(I'm a little disappointed in the Woodleigh's availability as of late)

I just received some of the CP's in 375... man, they look like they could kill just sitting there...

Both Woodleighs and North Fork Bullet are great with sure-fire results but don't turn you back on the Barnes X in 350 or 400gr. My 425 Express loaded w/350X has been a super dependable back-up for 10+yrs now. As a brown bear guide most of our shots are Texas style with full penetration being the norm. Just my 2cents. Iliamna Jim

quote:

It spewed blood and lungs out of the large entrance rib hole, mushed the lungs and clipped the great vessels off the top of the heart and fractured both the humerus and scapula of the off side shoulder.

Rip,
Once I backed a friend up on a Bison with the CZ 416 Riby. I was using up some factory Federal ammunition with the Woodleigh soft point that I got along with the rifle. The bullet set up on the rib on its way to the great vessels above the heart. The big beast ran another eight steps as it listed and finally fell over onto its right side. With each pump of the heart about a cup of blood flew out of the side of the chest in bolus form, described a lovely arc through the sky and made a puddle in the dust six feet to the left of the tracks. It was one of the most awe inspiring things I have ever seen.

lawndart

Damn bullet expanded to almost an inch across and didn't even make it out of the chest cavity. Weird.

Lawndart,
We gotta go bowling for bison someday. The meat will be good if you bleed'em like that. Seems the Woodleighs and the North Forks have some similarities in performance.

waterrat/Iliamna Jim,
Do you know Joe Polanco? I met him in Dutch Harbor when he piloted a med-evac to Cold Bay where the Life Flight from Anchorage picked up. Joe was a brown bear guide too.

Joe Polanco was fond of a .425 Express, I do believe.

I have seen a few pictures of him guiding some of the gun scribes in the magazines since then, when I looked back at some old Gun Digests, etc. I put him and a mechanic up in a bed and breakfast there at Cold Bay so he could spin some yarns for me when we got weathered in that night. It was either that or sleep in the hanger. The hanger fed us well that night.

Say "Hi" to Joe if you find him still kickin'.

Yeah Big, Woodleigh or NF, both work well. I am partial to the NF especially if the range is a bit farther, they just shoot alittle flatter.

The North Fork soft point does have a sort of semi-spitzer/protected point nose, bonded nose core, and a solid copper grooved shank.

The Woodleigh bullet might turn inside-out at the velocities I might drive them, at close range impact. The North Fork would be a better bullet up close too.

Altogether now: THE NORTH FORK IS DEFINITELY THE BETTER BULLET.

It sounds like the North Fork bullets are the way to go. I may get a few feet per second more out of my 25 inch barrel, but I doubt the bear will notice. My one and only bear was a 180 pound black shot with a 375 and TBBC. It was an effective one shot kill.

I built the 404 for the purpose of going to Alaska and getting a big bear and also thought it would be good on buffalo. It is quickly becoming one of my favorite guns.

The outfitter says we can also take wolf if seen, do you think the North Forks will expand too much on a wolf. I can always pack a few solids in case we see a wolf.

BigB

BigB,
I think you are right, the North Fork soft would blow a big hole out the off side of the wolf, and probably field dress it in the process. Might make it rough on the taxidermist if any chunks of hide were lost. A solid for varmints with the .404 Jeffery would be a great idea.

I have shot a world of both Bison and Buffalo with Woodlieghs and Northforks, and see very little difference in them...The Woodleigh will do more internal damage and come to rest on the off side skin in every case I have used them, The North forks do the same...I'd be hard pressed to pick one over the other...then Woodleigh has a 450 gr. 416 and .423 bullet and thats an awesome bullet and it will blow a big hole in a bear or buffalo and usually two big holes, its a sho nuff real winner in PP and RN persuation...but Northford has the all time champion of big bore bullets, the cup point, if they just get them in production, they are awesome and always make two big holes and send gushers of blood pumping out both sides.

quote:

The outfitter says we can also take wolf if seen, do you think the North Forks will expand too much on a wolf. I can always pack a few solids in case we see a wolf.

Any bullet made for the 404J will pass right thru a wolf without a hiccup I believe.

They will work fine on a wolf, there is no such thing as 380 grs. of failure at 2100 to 2600 FPS on a wolf..I will expand and may even stop on the off side skin fully expanded, it does on Impala, Bushbuck, Wildebeest, Kudu and on Cape Buffalo and Eland, don't ask I don;t have the answers..but I know they work on everything...and sometimes the make two holes..

quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:
Both Woodleighs and North Fork Bullet are great with sure-fire results but don't turn you back on the Barnes X in 350 or 400gr. My 425 Express loaded w/350X has been a super dependable back-up for 10+yrs now. As a brown bear guide most of our shots are Texas style with full penetration being the norm. Just my 2cents. Iliamna Jim

Where are you getting the 350 gr.X bulets and even the 400 gr.?????

Right now, Barnes has discomtinued all of the .423, so if you can find them, snatch them up. I know a little shop that still has a box of 400gr solids I keep thinking I should buy, but then if I can get the NF cup point to feed.......................?

North Fork.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
North Fork.

Amen.

BigB

I have shot two Coastal Grizzlies in BC with my 404. One of them had 26" skull and was in the 900lb area. (no scale handy)

The large one was a full charge at 20 yards across a small stream. It was not a surprise charge so I was prepared and the Bear went nose down within a step. The bullet, Woodleigh soft, went in behind the head, broke the neck and penitrated the depth of the Bear exiting in front of his pecker.

The other Bear was shot directly in the chest at about 20 yards. It was standing and it toppled over to the right and fell dead on it's side.

The bullet was also a pass through but took out part of the spine as it went through.

I think that it is a great choice and would be superior to the 375 for sure at any range you would shoot a Brown Bear.

I have never used Northforks but can not imagine any improvement in performance would have been noticed. Perfect is as good as it can get.

RIP aka Ron I don't know Joe but have heard his name before. We live in the woods and don't get to many guide meetings or socialize much. It looks like Barnes has stopped making .423 so if my supply dwindels before I croak North Forks gets the nod. Jim

Thanks, waterrat/Jim. You guys have helped keep the .423 alive. Good bullets are getting more plentiful now.