Now I know the 300 RUM is the easiest conversion but these are not all that available and from what I have seen cost more than say a 7mm or 300 Win Mag Model 70. Am I better off trying to find a 300 RUM at a higher price or going with a "cheaper" action in say a 7mm knowing that there will be considerably more smith work to get it to feed and cycle the 404? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

ive got a stainless CRF m70, new, unfired stashed for the day i want to do a .404.... the differnce in cost of an action may be $2-300... and you know that it will feed the .404 case... to start with a differnt size action depends on the skill of the gunsmith doing the conversion... all it takes is $$$ and time....in the long run, you may spend more $$$ on gunsmithing that you'd have paid in the first place....

I have one that was originally a 30/06. Stuart Satterlee said it was no prolem making one from it. Obviously it would need new bottom metal...but the action was fine.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

If you want controlled round feeding, then its best to pony up the 1000-1300$ avg for a M70 Classic 300 RUM, but if you don't need CRF, then you can pick up R700 and Sako actions in RUM fairly cheap and convert. Its nice to know your action and magazine are already configured to feed those big cases rather then getting a call from the gunsmith "ok, so what we're gonna have to do is....." which equates in your ears to $$$$$$$$

Please don't take this as a "smart a$$" question, I really am trying to learn from a reply. At a cost of $1000-$1300 for the M70, why wouldn't you just buy an action or barreled action from Montana Rifles for a bit less and go from there?

I am looking for all options. I would be looking for a CRF of some form. The Montana action is definitely a possibility.

Interesting question and I do not know the answer. But if you read the classifieds someone recently sold a 404 made from a W70 crf action originally chambered in 300 RUM and he stated in his ad the rifle needed "feeding" work. You might want to send him a PM and find out what he meant.

With a Model 70 RUM action you will need to replace the barrel, maybe open the bolt face a shade and replace the mag follower(some feed better with a follower from a 375H&H rather than the RUM).

With a long mag action (originally H&H,STW, 416 or Weatherby) you'll need to replace the mag box as well as the above.

With an action that was originally a 300 Win mag, 7mm Rem mag, etc, any good gunsmith can lengthen the action opening, redrill the rear scope mount, replace or shorten the ejector and bolt stop,open the feed rails and reblue as well as all the rest.

With any of these, you'll probably need to open the barrel channel in the stock.

Hopefully now you can talk to your gunsmith and find out what he will charge for the work required.

You couldn't run fast enough to give me a Montana, so I have no idea about them. Too many horror stories about 'em and their customer service.

quote:

Originally posted by JPenn:
Please don't take this as a "smart a$$" question, I really am trying to learn from a reply. At a cost of $1000-$1300 for the M70, why wouldn't you just buy an action or barreled action from Montana Rifles for a bit less and go from there?

I agree. I had my 404j built on a 300RUM, but it can be done on any of the magnum length/bolt faced M70. It may require a mag box &/or follower change, but it certainly can be done. The Montana action is a cheaper way to go if you are going ground up, new stock etc. I used the RUM stock & shortened the forend a bit, added cross bolts & pad. Sorry to those that have already seen the pic for posting again.

I had a 404 Jeff made using a Win. 70 Classic originally chambered for the 7mm Rem Mag. (NOT the RUM).

No big whoop.

I got new bottom metal, a new magazine box, and the gunsmith opened up the feed rails slightly.

I guess I started on it around 1995 or so. I can't tell you how many gun "experts" said it won't work. (wrong size action, the cartridge will "popoise" out of the magazine, not an accurate round, can't get barrels, etc)

I really enjoyed having it made. It was (and still is...I sold it) an excellent rifle.

Sold it to finance my 400 Whelen (Improved).
Great cartridge also.

Garrett

My gunsmith did not speak kindly of MRC actions, never anything specific, but he did not like them when i brought it up. That was enough for me, since he is the one doing the work on my rifles, I'll trust his opinion.

Just about anything is possible, with time and money. Like mentioned above, going with the M70 RUM, you've already got a stock with the proper channels, and a magazine wide enough, anything you can do to save money from the smith, the better.

quote:

I had a 404 Jeff made using a Win. 70 Classic originally chambered for the 7mm Rem Mag. (NOT the RUM).

I built one using a .300 WinMag action. I had to change the mag box and follower and have someone better than me (Dennis Olson) do the feeding work. I didn't have to open the bolt face as there was enough tolerance from the factory to make it work. It was originally a PF Model 70 and Dennis converted it to a CRF action, a great job, by the way. That wound up costing me around $460 total but I made a great trade for the Model 70 in the beginning so I wasn't out much money. Shoots good too.

quote:

Originally posted by N. Garrett:
I had a 404 Jeff made using a Win. 70 Classic originally chambered for the 7mm Rem Mag. (NOT the RUM).

I got new bottom metal, a new magazine box, and the gunsmith opened up the feed rails slightly.

I really enjoyed having it made. It was (and still is...I sold it) an excellent rifle.

Garrett

I am now the proud owner of this rifle, and it works just fine. It's also very accurate.

MileHigh,
Interesting re: the MRC actions. I know that "Rusty", who posts here had a pair of 404j's built on MRC actions (I saved one of his posts for info...https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/143101974?r=143101974#143101974 ) and my reccolection is that he has been very happy with them. Opinions vary as another poster likes to say.

Wow Wink, what does that rifle weigh, the bbl. is massive?
AS to MRC, I have seen several rifles made up, couple of 375h&h & one really nice 404j, they all looked & felt great. What problmes are you guys exp. or heard of w/ the MRC actons?

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
Wow Wink, what does that rifle weigh, the bbl. is massive?
AS to MRC, I have seen several rifles made up, couple of 375h&h & one really nice 404j, they all looked & felt great. What problmes are you guys exp. or heard of w/ the MRC actons?

One of my daughters seems to have hidden the bathroom scale so I have no idea what it might weigh. However, it has a pencil thin Kreiger barrel with an aluminum sleeve recoil reducing noise abatement thingamajig which makes it look a 4 bore. In short, it's lighter than it looks and a pussycat to shoot.

That makes snese then. It looks like an unturned bbl. blank that would weigh 15#-16#.

I had John Ricks turn a 30-06 CRF into a 358-404 and I believe he simply used the stock RUM box/follower, and worked the rails a bit.
The dorks at the sporting goods store had it listed as a push-feed, and priced at $375 or so. I was in no position to buy a rifle, but there are some things you can't pass up. (And for the karma police out there, I did point out to the zit-faced teen behind the counter that the Mauser claw extractor was the give-away, not to mention the word "classic" on the barrel, but when he just looked at me with a dial-tone in his eyes, I responded with "I'll take it." I'm not really sure that I even have $1k in this thing.)

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
Wow Wink, what does that rifle weigh, the bbl. is massive?
AS to MRC, I have seen several rifles made up, couple of 375h&h & one really nice 404j, they all looked & felt great. What problmes are you guys exp. or heard of w/ the MRC actons?

No problems for me. I have one built up in 35 Whelen and another in 458 Lott. Best bang for the buck on the market, especially if you are left handed as I am.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Interesting question and I do not know the answer. But if you read the classifieds someone recently sold a 404 made from a W70 crf action originally chambered in 300 RUM and he stated in his ad the rifle needed "feeding" work. You might want to send him a PM and find out what he meant.

That was my rifle in the classifieds. I had it on an old synthetic stock with the original 300 rum bottom metal and follower so it could be test fired after the metal work was complete. The plan was to change the bottom metal and follower, but I still think it would have needed some feed ramp polishing to feed properly after these changes were made.

Wink,

I was out of town, or would have responded quicker to your post.

The barrel you see is actually the outer sleeve of what other posts call a shrouded muzzle brake.

There is a lightweight Krieger barrel in the center, with the outer tube (stainless steel and quite thin) the exact diameter of the shank, and welded (seamlessly) in place.
A front collet/centering piece keeps it all coaxial (the muzzle end of the barrel is threaded).

Ports in the tip of the barrel release the escaping gases, and trap them in the space between the barrel and the shroud, reducing both noise and recoil.

You need to fire it once to appreciate it.
It is quite comfortable, and quieter (4 dB) than a regular 404 Jeffery.

Ward Dobler at Dakota Arms cut the chamber and did the feed work.
The bottom metal is Ted Blackburn's work, before he became impossible to reach.

The polymer coating is from Falcon Gun works.

The stock is a Richard's Microfit that's been worked on.

It feeds slicker than goose poop.

Garrett

fredj338,

Nice looking rifle, I like the feel of the M70's, their stocks generally fit me well, so I may try to do something similar. Think I will look around a bit more before going the MRC route. Thanks for sharing.

quote:

Originally posted by JPenn:
fredj338,

Nice looking rifle, I like the feel of the M70's, their stocks generally fit me well, so I may try to do something similar. Think I will look around a bit more before going the MRC route. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks J, I really like how it turned out too. She shoots great too, I call her my 42caliber varmint rifle.

Dennis Olson, Plains, Mt. can do that conversion for you on a 98 Mauser, or even a pre 64 Win...However the M-70 in a RUM is the easy way...

I was going to do a seperate post but this one is here....

I just received my M70 classic Rum rebarreled and opened up for a 404 Jeff. My gunsmith told me it was pretty straight foward...opened the bolt face a little.

I purchased my 300 Rum on gunbroker and it was the one with the black synthetic stock....IIRC I paid 650 for it....so the new win custom stock,labor,parts and stockwork should be about 2800-3000 bucks total....I don't know how that compares...it's fine with me....so that gives you an idea.

The 404 is the one in the back and the front one is a 375....off to the stockmaker to finish them....

The 404 must have a classic African/english style stock otherwise you will just as well off with a .416 Rem...

He who violates this nostalgic rule will suffer the consequences of becomin impotent, chase rabbits and howl at the moon, and should be gilflurted and springhaultered.

Ray I agree about a 404 needing a classic English style stock.

I am looking to find a pattern of the Pre War H&H stock.

You wouldn't know where I could rent, buy, borrow, beg or steal one would you?

I am trying to find a Pre War H&H pattern so I can send it to Michael Kokolus and have him duplicate it so I would
have a pattern when we ready to have our guns stocked.

I'm gathering parts for a pair of rifles duplicating the Pre War H&H rifles as closely as possible for my wife and I.

We will be using LW's H&H stepped barrels and the short H&H style quarter ribs.

I think they used one of your Pre War H&H barrels for their pattern, didn't they?

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
The 404 must have a classic African/english style stock otherwise you will just as well off with a .416 Rem...

He who violates this nostalgic rule will suffer the consequences of becomin impotent, chase rabbits and howl at the moon, and should be gilflurted and springhaultered.

Ray remember....these are winchesters....ok a bastard 404....but the english style stocks are reserved for my custom mauser 416 and 450 Rigbys..