This got very long, sorry, but I thought it might serve well for others at the same stage of the thought process. If you�re not in the mood for a long message then hit the back button now.

Anyway, I�ve been considering a �big bore� for some time and wanted to get some opinions based on some of the following parameters, call them idle thoughts. Calibers under consideration, but not necessarily limited to this list, include 375 H&H, 416 Rigby, 458 Lott/450 Watts.

First, my potential use(s) for this rifle would include, and I�ve tried to make this in order of likelihood but not necessarily importance, (1) farting around at the range, i.e., practicing and load testing, (2) using a rifle that is far too large on whitetail deer (I might add here that it would take one hell of a rifle to unseat my 308 Norma for deer hunting), (3) big game hunting out west, primarily elk as I have a friend who recently retired to north central Wyoming and I do intend to go out there for a hunt asap (again, the 308 Norma is pretty well suited to this as well), (4) Alaska for preferably moose/bear although caribou would be desired as well (now we get to where I�m more willing to leave the 308 Norma behind although it�s fine for caribou/moose and some would say bear too), and (5) Africa�someday�I�d say anything�s on the table that I could find my way into, primarily financially, in terms of quarry in Africa.

Some background. I have a fairly long history with my gunsmith to the tune of six modified 1917 Enfield rifles from 22/6mm to 338/416 Rigby all with thumbhole stocks. By the way, my gunsmith�s about 75 years old and as he says �he�s not getting any younger.� I have a certain sense or urgency if I�m to have him build this rifle and I do like the idea of approximating my 308 Norma deer rifle in terms of dimensions, etc. Other side of the coin? I�ve thought that I could spend less by going to Tulsa next spring and find a nice pre-64 Winchester that would probably retain value better anyway. Restocking a Ruger or CZ is also an option I suppose.

Idle caliber thoughts. In general I think there�s plenty of bullet selection in all three diameters and brass availability is at least reasonable. In addition, previously loaded ammunition would be available for all when considering 458 Win could be used in the 458 Lott/450 Watts. Anybody care to comment about these or any other similar calibers being easier to load for such as a caliber that really puts everything fed into it into the same point of impact, more tolerant of temp extremes, or any other factors that come to mind? Are there any advocates of going to a bigger caliber by use of a muzzle brake?

375 H&H. Perfectly suited for everything listed above especially when considering that any hunt in Africa would be in the presence of somebody holding a MUCH bigger caliber (PH). It�s a very common variant that has been proven over a long period of time. Despite the previous list of wildcats, I�m also one of those types that finds a certain amount of value in something with a history. On certain days I lean pretty heavily toward this or similar calibers.

416 Rigby. Starts getting into the overkill category other than needs 4 & 5 from above (I think it would be good for bear). When I�m not thinking so much about the fact that a PH would be present on any African hunt I start to think of this as the minimum. Another thought, despite the presence of another highly skilled shooter I sure seem to see a lot of value in making that first shot count. On days when I�m not thinking the 375 H&H is the way to go I find myself thinking this is the way to go.

458 Lott/450 Watts. About as big as I would prefer to go without having first shot one. I have the funniest feeling that this may be �too big� for me in that the recoil would affect my amount of practice. I�ve read where many say just practice with 458 Win loads for this type of rifle but I�m a proponent of practicing with my hunting arrangement as much as possible. I frankly don�t find too many days where I�m thinking this is the way to go for my needs other than when I consider a muzzle brake (right now I don�t own any rifles with muzzle brakes).

I guess that�s about as concise as I can be when trying to collect my thoughts on this subject. I sure would appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

Thanks,

Reed

If you want something fun to shoot and is good at long range, get a 375.

If you want something that is not as fun to shoot but is good at long range, get a 416.

If you are heading to Africa, start at 458 lott and go up from there.

IMO, if you don't have a .375HH you should get one of those first. This of course does not preclude the possiblity of messing around with the really big boys later.

I just think you will find the .375HH extremely fun at the range, and entirely practical for all the intended purposes you stated. And its a nice stepping stone from "standard" hunting cartridges into the big bores. If you could handle your .338/416 Rigby, you won't even notice .375 recoil!

FWIW, Canuck

Before I would have anything bigger than a .375 H&H built I would try to shoot one to get an idea of the recoil plus I wouldn't do the Rigby because of the cost of the case and the length of action required...do the .416 Remington if you want a .416. The Lott has the advantage of good cast bullets for messin' around that the .416 doesn't but be aware the Lott can be a thumper on both ends.

Go and get a cz .416 rigby and have it restocked, they kick but there not unbearable. It will handle everything including and africa trip, they shoot pretty flat, and I would not worry about the extra weight of the action. They can be handloaded to better the .416 remington and they have history something you mentioned was important to you. I have loaded 410 gr woodleighs in mine for 2600fps 2.1 inches high at 100yards gives a 200 yard zero and it is a tad under 10 inches low at 300 yards. On large game it just means a hold at the top of the spine or just below, depending on animal size.

I read that you have a 338 calibre rifle and thats pretty close to a .375 so your collection is screaming out for a .416 rigby.
This is just my 2 cents worth hope it helps.

Regards PC

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Reed,

Firstly I assuming 338/416 to mean 416 necked down not 338 necked up.

If so, all of calibers are smaller and faster ones.

The 375 I think is the perfect caliber for a move to the bigger bores, especially for the uses you outlined.

As well, it probably has a better combination of fun, pizzaz and practicality than any other caliber.

Mike

Oh yeah, don't .375 topics belong in the 'Small Bore' forum?

hee! hee!

For general farting around, and most big game hunting, it is very tough to beat the 375 H&H.

If you after large dangerous game, including the oft under rated Alaskan coastal brown bear, a 416 is more gun then any .375 ever will be.

If you want a big bad ass gun, the 458 lott is a grin maker. I'll also add then when you push a 350 gr bullet 2400-2600 fps, it is just as pleasant to shoot as a 375 H&H, and is fully up to most hunting needs. IMHO, Winchesters biggest failing with the 458 win mag was not loading a 350 gr bullet @ 2400-2500 fps for NA use.

I jumped from a 35 whelen ackley to the 458 lott, then sold it to finance a 500 Jeffrey, and my smith convinced me to build another 458 Lott. I'm still debating about a 416, but it just doesn't have the allure of the big nasties. I'd likely build a 585 Nyati before a 416, but I've got the disease, so my comments must be tempered with that consideration

If you shoot a 338 lapua, you should have no problems with recoil. It all comes down to desire, if you want to shoot a big gun, you'll deal with the recoil. That said, there were a few times with the lott when I just wasn't up to full patch 500 gr loads, and I was sensible enough to return 7 empty cases and 3 loaded ones.