The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Re: Is there any interst in big bore rifllesGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Do you mean 10-20 rifles a year? How would the stock work be handled? How much would they cost? If you are selling them at 1500-to even 2500 at 10-20 a year and have the three of you working... your consumables will eat up any profit margin you have left and you'll have to take turns buying each other lunch. *IF* you guys rework actions as a bases for your guns, and farm out some work, your cost to "make" a rifle will be between 700-1100$min range... thats not taking in account of any consumables, shop bills, any wages of your own or other expenses you WILL run into. I dissagree that there are more 5000$ rifles then the market can bear... Now there maybe more makers then the market can bear... which means some will be deamed shitty(not worth it) and will drop off... others then climb aboard. | |||
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I have been rolling an idea for quite some time, and am curious about feasibilty? My idea is there a market for some select custom rifles that were built semi custom in very limited quantities. Concept here is not to build fabously expensive rifles that only a prince can afford, but I admit they aren't going to be the same price as a production grade rifle either. Some background and members of the the team, I have two very close friends that are both FFL's and gunsmiths. Collectively between us we have three mills, two lathes and a several tons worth of smithing equipment. My FFL friends are are both school trained smiths, one is a benchrest fanatic, who really doesn't work actively in the trade for the last few years, but is a couple of years from retirement in his trade and will start building again. The other is an active smith, he does a lot of repair restoration work, and a custom parts. I am the odd ball in this mix, the 1911 nut and authority ( purely relative ), with extensive engineering and electronics backgound, I am called Santa's toymaker at work among the engineers, when nothing works, and it needs to: bring it to me me, be it a high level C4ISR system, crypto's, weapon control systems. mechanical electrical I don't care they are all toys, and aren't interesting to me unless I get the sparkle in the kids eyes..that can be anywhere from an Admiral, to a an systems engineer, or even a kid, I don't care as long as I get it to work and I see the sparkle. My other expertise is rolling my toys into production based items, they need to be able to be build in a repeatable method (important). So what we have here is a lot of latent capability, we all have good incomes, and this is not a dire straits, or a need to figure out short term employment. Enough about history, needless to say we have machining and engineering skills covered. We have discussed several times about a common project, this is still in the air but needless to say it must be in our collective capability ( some items might be farmed out such as heat treating or very high quality plating ). Of interest is rifles, we all like this platform, and to close this down I will qualify this as bolt actions. This is where we have disagreement, and this is a crude attempt at a market survey. Make no mistake this is not a sales pitch, I am not taking any orders, frankly even if I wanted to we are collectively not ready yet. 2 concepts are in our minds right now, 1st is the old Remington custom route. Thoughts are select calibers such as 6.5x284, and real specialised long range shooters. I personally I am luke warm on this, although I want one to play with this doesn't really interest me much, there are many who do this and do it well ( one of the smiths in the team). The other concept which I favor is building African express rifles. Thoughts are building some 404 Jeffreys, we are going to get the three of us in the same state in the next month and do some brainstorming but concept is on original mausers, or worst case pre 64 Winchesters if the techinal issues are insurmountable on the mausers. Other thought calibers are 9.3x62, 338-06, other thought calibers would be considered. So is there a market for some of these custom rifles? We are not even considering large production numbers and 10-20 is all that are currently in our target production range. Thoughts are very high quality, with possibly Lothar Walther barrels, not build to ridiculously expensive, but quality existing actions, on select hard to aquire large bore calibers, with function, reliability and utility engineered in. Any thoughts? Crazy idea for idle gunsmiths and engineers? Or is this something there would be a real interest in. The thought here is not a get rich scheme, income is not the primary goal, we are all three good enough businessmen we don't plan on lossing money on this, recovering our costs and not loosing money and a small return on our investment is to be expected. Honestly my guess is the first three rifles would be spoken for, and the considering that at least two of the us are extremely fussy nit pickers on quality we deliver ( the third is normally high just not an extremists ) it wouldn't happen unless it would be something we personally would want in our gun safes. I really beleive we collectively would focus some and quit having so many custom projects ( we each have two to three going concurently ) get a little more specialised towards one great custom in very limited quanities, and stop or at least slow down some of our current projects ( very different but all long guns of one type or another ) Any thoughts, would anyone have an interest? One last comment is these would not be custom build you wait for ever, these would ready to go when we complete them, the availabilty would just be very limited at least initially. Comments Welcome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |||
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schromf, first off, there will always be a demand for big bores. secondly, the BEST advice i can give you, period, is that the three of you MUST study FEEDING,,, anyone can screw a barrel in, chamber it, stick it in a nice piece of wood, and make it somewhat feed.... but, since you are talking bigbores, which are inherently DGRs, they must feed perfectly, everytime in this case, the world probably isn't looking for a BETTER mouse trap, just a 100% reliable one... email me off list, and I will share some thoughts ands some contacts with you. as far as actions go... for "normal" sized rounds to 3.65" mauser, CF winchesters, CZs and MRM for outsized rounds... CZ, MRM, Enfields anything over .400 bore MUST have a barrel lug. get loads of insurance... have 5 people try to load and feed the thing before you send it off... best of luck, more later jeffe | |||
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CZ's decision to chamber rifles in calibers like .416 Rigby, .458 Lott and others would seem to indicate that there is sufficient demand to even interest an industrial maker. Since most of the CZ buyers probably consider the rifle they just bought as a starting point for making a DGR, at least some smiths are making money upgrading the CZ to the standards required for Africa. I think it would be a good idea to sell the finished product, with no need for us to go looking for somone capable of turning it into what we want. Some smiths and low production numbers rifle makers are already doing this. | |||
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I just read Jeffeosso's post and thought I should second that emotion, it can't be stressed enough. It's anecdotal but two weeks ago 5 of us at my local club decided to do a "mini" version of the Zimbabwean PH shooting test with a rapid fire drill of 4 shots at 25 meters, calibers and rifles were two CZ's in 375, one Win Model 70 in 375 and one CZ in .416 Rigby. The surprising part is this, two (in other words 100%) of the shooters with the CZ in .375 manged to produce a failure to eject with their .375's during the drill. This of course had never previously happened to them in average speed shooting situations at the range nor when plains game hunting. All we had to do was speed up the pace to make it happen. We were stupified. We studied and found the problem (the retractable ejector can be held down if you stoke the bolt at a particular angle, not allowing it be placed well within the groove on the bolt). I take this opportunity to suggest that everyone with a big bore try the rapid fire drill, and not for this reason alone: I learned some things about myself and my CZ in 416 Rigby when shooting 4 shots in 10 seconds. Not all of them were good. Since I'm rambling on here, I have another pet peeve about big bore rifles as produced by most industrial makers and that is the iron sights. Whether expensive or cheap, most of them present a terrible sight picture and are far too fragile. So far the only convincing iron sight set-up I have seen is one done by one of our club members. He took of the barrel band front on his CZ and replaced it with a self-designed and self-made rabbit-eared front sight similar to what you see on a Garand, made from a solid piece of steel. He replaced the back site by interchanging the factory leaf sight set-up with a solid piece of steel with a simple cut-out to view the front patridge type sight. The sight picture is almost identical to the Novak sight picture on my 1911. Here's the best part, you could take a mallet to these sights and not be able to damage them nor knock them out of alignment. Nothing very traditional about these sights but they are very, very robust and they work. I hope, if your project goes forward, that you produce indestructable iron sights. | |||
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Quote: Actaully BOTH of the Smiths like the Enfield option, we have discuseed the big bore cases in detail, and for the true big stuff they prefer these actions for both safety and technical reasons. Actually the bench rest smith has build several of these already, and needless to say the Enfield is an old friend. And I know they have a couple already started in the building. My concern with them would they be less desirable because they are Enfield actions and would they sell? The MRM actions we are aware of and the other smith knows him personally for many years and they are almost nieghbors relatively speaking for our part of the woods ( North Idaho/Western Montana ). jeffeosso, Your comments about not building a new better mousetrap is right on, it was never any of our intention to reinvent any wheel. Building what is not availble in the production guns, and doing it right is the goal. The details are very fluid at the moment but thoughts were a sturdy rear peep, and barrel lugs were already considered mandatory. Feeding and reliability are must or lack of this feature defeats the whole purpose of the exercise. Like I said in my original post this must be something we want to have in our own personal collections, and collectively our personal firearms tend to be either top notch very correct, or parts. None of use would let our names be associated with a second rate product, in any way. I doubt rehashed CZ's would be of interest at this point. One of the Smiths and I have been playing with my new CZ and there are things we are unhappy with, particularly with the bolt and feeding. I am not saying it couldn't be fixed but after owning one a lot of work is required to get one of these up to a standard I feel is acceptable for this class of rifle. There are better options available and I don't think we would get much interest between us fixing up CZ's. Enfields..............Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Definately a thought. | |||
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Please incorporate the lefties. There are many looking for heavies. 375, 404, 416, 458. Doesn't have to be fancy, just workable. CRF, a must. Roger QSL | |||
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Having built several highend DGR's myself and learned a great deal in the process, I have the following advice for you. 1. Yes there is a demand for $10K and up bolt actions. However, you will need to start with really top notch actions, GMA, Johansen, Vektor etc. The folks who can afford these guns go to SCI each year they know what expensive looks and feels like. 2. You need to be able to offer something "above the ordinary" don't forget you are competing with the prices of low end double rifles and they have a alure for folks with money. 3. There are a fair amount of people out there with STUPID MONEY. They will pay you anything you want for the right weopon. 4. Some calibers have much more allure then others for high end guns. The .505 Gibbs, 500 Jeffery,.600NE all demand top dollar and the smiths both good and bad who build them get their money. 5. You had better have a tremendous stockbuilder,4 figure checkering and engraving abilities because thats what these guys want and will pay for. You will also have to fit the stock to your customer. 6. The rifle will need to feed flawlessly and the action must be internally polished and Rust blued. 7. You will need to deal with recoil in a pleasing manner which means leather pads and internal recoil compensating tubes. 8. Finally be prepared for lots of shit from your customers who will complain about every detail endlessly. 9. Finally remember most can't shoot worth a damn and will have no idea how to reload a .500 Jeffery for example so you had better be able to sell them loaded ammo also. Hope this helps.-Rob | |||
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schromf, I believe Alf and Robgunbuilder have provided the most accurate portraits to answer your original question. I have a comment though: Quote: Quote: It seems to me that you believe it is easier to get an Enfield to work "right" than a CZ550. That is a grossly incorrect assumption. There is significantly MORE work required to make an Enfield work than practically ANY OTHER action. The Enfields aren't all that strong either! The bolt of the CZ is perfectly adequate through the 0.6" diameter rim, I would question it somewhat for the 0.64" 505 Gibbs though. It is an issue which is easily "fixed" . Now Enfield actions are cheaper than CZs though, so I can understand how a more appealing business case could be made for them, if one's labor is consider dirt cheap that is. Stocks will be a major problem for you if you step up to real big bores, meaning 50 caliber on up. The 404 Jeffery is a low recoil heavy medium bore, and is "relatively" easy to stock, but a 505 Gibbs or 500 Jeffery requires excellent (read near perfect) bedding and proper wood, which typically is rather plain looking. Of course you could opt for synthetics, although it is difficult to fit them to individual shooters. Fit by the way, it the BIGGEST single parameter in managing recoil! It is imperative that the rifle fit the shooter well, thus the need, as Robgunbuilder stated, to individually fit each stock to each shooter. What do you expect your price range will be? I can build a damned near perfect big bore DG stopper for around $3000 and that is with significant subcontracting. If I did the work myself that number is literally cut in two. I bring this up as you will undoubtedly have two camps to deal with. Those that will do the work themselves ala Robgunbuilder/jeffeosso, and those that will pay, as Robgunbuilder so accurately put it, "stupid money" to have some else do it all for them. You will need to decide whom your clients will be, as this will undoubtedly drive your price structure. Finally, I detest the "ghost" ring peep sights. In my opinion you might as well just use a front bead and aim the rifle like one would a shotgun, for all the "ghost" ring provides. Of course I learned to shoot with British express "v" sights, so I must be some kinda freak or something. My recommendation on sights would be a simple single blade express "V" island regulated for 50 yards. A quick detach scope for longer range work. The only place I feel a "ghost" ring peep is adequate is on a Thompson! Of course with a rate of fire of ~ 900 rounds per minute you can afford to "waste" a few shots finding the target with that "ghost" ring peep. ASS_CLOWN | |||
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Yes, there is a market, there is always money to be made providing top end products to those that can afford them. You have several hurdles though. First is relevent experience, from your description, you guys have very little relevant experience. It's like a Nascar team going to race Formula one, yep, they both race cars, but that's about where the similarity ends. There are three things I can think of that are paramount in the guns you want to offer. As already mentioned, feeding from the magazine, it needs to be glass smooth and flawless whether slow or fast, empty mag, full mag. This is nothing like barrel work where you just dial in the lathe and make chips. You use a mill to get close, and do the finish work by hand. It takes years to get it to where you can do it fast enough to make money at it. Unlike chambering a barrel where you can set back a thread if you goof, if you take too much off, you scrap the action, which may have had 20-40 hours already invested in it. Stocking. The stock needs to be properly proportioned so as not to slap the shooter silly, and it also needs to stay in one piece. There is also the actual wood work, making an aesthetically pleasing stock that perfectly fits the barreled action. Metal work fit and finish. High grade rifles have perfect fit and finish of wood and metal. This isn't demanded by BR shooters, nor the average guy getting a gun repaired, or the average hunting rifle built. This is another area that takes years to develop. Go to the gunmakers guild show, look at what type of work is done by top smiths, and then build guns to the same level. Be very critical with your work, and put in the time to refine it. Once you have done that, then you can go about establishing a name for yourself, and then there will be a market for guns. Honestly I think the market for long range hunting guns is probably a better one to go after. The market is bigger, you one's smith has relevant experience, and the customers aren't as demanding on fit/finish, so the learning curve isn't that long. Heck, all you have to do is cut a good chamber in the barrel, bead blast the barreled action, put on some plastic finish, and slap it in a plastic stock. | |||
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I'll second the request for left handed rifles. If you're just going to refit old Mausers you have competition from every other gunsmith in the world. If you go the semi-production route and offer a Lefty on something like a slicked up Montana action that would generate some interest. It took me two years to find a 375 H&H and I told 5 gun dealers that I would buy the first lefthanded DG rifle that they could find. I bought a 375 because that was the only finished rifle that I could buy as they aren't offered in any bigger caliber. | |||
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From a marketing standpoint your best bet is to fill an empty niche, and both niches you mention got filled a long time ago. The first niche that comes to my mind is the North American Heavy. It�s ideal for potentially dangerous game such as hogs or bears, but lacks the punch you�d need on elephant or buff. It�s also ideal for larger game in heavy cover such as elk, moose, kudu, eland, or nilgai. Since far more people hunt hogs, elk and bears than really dangerous game, your potential customer base is a lot bigger, too. Except for the 375 H&H and custom shop calibers, medium bore shooters get no respect from US makers. Despite our howling, every 35 in the US market has a 1:16 twist. Only Weatherby makes a 338-06, and no US makers sell a bolt action 358, 9.3x62 or 404. Stainless or left-handed? Forget it. The North American Heavy should be simple, rugged and weather resistant. It should fire a medium-bore cartridge and have a CRF action. It should be light like a mountain rifle, but it neither has nor needs that much reach. Several versions have been described on AR: RIP�s African Sheep Rifle, our brother Saeed�s 375/404, and the 9.3x62 I used for feral cattle and hogs and described here last summer. Steyr�s Pro Hunter and Scout in 376 Steyr are also pretty close. A few weeks ago, I got mine. It�s a pre-64 M-70 35 Whelen with a 23� premium stainless barrel bedded into a Borden stock. It has a 5-shot magazine, perfect trigger, Leupold 4x scope in Weaver mounts, Latigo sling and a glorious rattle-can paint job. Cost was roughly $2,500. For purely logistical reasons, I may convert it to a switch-barrel rig, with the second barrel in 9.3x62 for Africa or Europe. Or, if you�re building rifles by then, maybe we can talk. Hope this helps, Okie John. | |||
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I think you have to build in an attractive caliber lacking stiff competition. That means .505 Gibbs, .500 Jeffery, or maybe one of the .460 Weatherby case based .51's, though I am opposed to that because there are others building those. It would be better to have many of the buyers signed up and deposits down before building anything. You can reduce the burden of fine finish work by specializing in "Alaska DGR Rifles." Everything stainless, waterproof, unbreakable, and ergonomic. That means a short DGR barrel. A rifle you would be willing to take out for a week in crummy wet weather. You will have enough trouble getting the things to feed and putting sights on them. If you want to make your job more involved (walnut, etc.) later on, who am I to keep you from being happily miserable? Or is it miserably happy..... Look at what Nosler is doing right now. 500 rifles all in the same caliber, $3000 (?), with decent wood and finish. It's a hard world out there, filled with large, resourceful competitors, and if you are small, you have to find your own small niche where you can survive. It could be that people will beat a path to your door for .404 Jeffery, but in a world of .416 Wby, .416 Rigby, .416 Remington, plus the various .45's (.450 Rigby?), I feel this is a little chancy. With odd cartridges it's helpful to line up your source of brass ahead of time. Jeffe knows about that.... | |||
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The big bore demand is for a somewhat plain jane African rifle...Plain but good hard walnut, short 8" forend, open grip, round or steel grip cap, drop box magazine, checkered... An Enfield or Mauser action is a great start, talley bolt and surface ground with a cock on open, D%T...Blackburn trigger, drop box, and a Lothar Walthar barrel with a barrel band swivel, rear sight and front sight....solid recoil pad, polish to 220 and parkerize....Priced at around $1500 to $2000. so as to compete with Ruger, Win.... Is this possible, maybe....calibers you need to make...505 Gibbs, 500 J, 404 J, a big 450 of some kind, and a 416 Rigby... | |||
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Quote: Actually this is an area both my smith friends have years of experience with. Make no mistake both have in the past and do currently build custom rifles. Quote: Not sure how you got to that leap of faith. Maybe I didn't do a good job of resume history, it doesn't matter, collectively my guess is somewhere around 40-50 years would come to the table. One of the smiths owned and operated his own shop for years, before closing it down, and going back to work to finish off his retirement. The other has a least two or three customs in shop at the moment, and has a steady backlog of work. Both are well established locally, in the Idaho, Eastern Washington, Western Montana region, they already have reputations ( why I said none of us are interested any sub-par, sub standard work. This is simply an exercise in data input and feedback. Quote: Quite possibly, but what you describe above has the soul of a Hessain mercenary, and is of very little interest to any of us. It would definately need more refinement than what you described. | |||
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Yes, I agree wholeheartedly with Ray--THAT is the niche that needs filling. Which leads me to speculate that it can't be done. Only the CZ 550 American and the Ruger Mk II heavy are in that vicinity and they are different enough not to appeal to a traditionalist. But please, Ray, no parkerizing.  Just a nice matte blue, please. | |||
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Ray, Your thoughts are a lot closer to the mark I was looking to built. Somehow this thread started to get twisted towords super high end rifles that few can realistically afford. I thought I was clear on that intention in my original post. There are plenty of $5000 plus rifles out there, and I believe there are as many being built currently as the market will bear. The guy that looks at a $5K gun as a base gun, and will go to $10K will always be able to find what he wants. Its simple call Griffin and Howe, give them your credit card number and you will have a rifle in a month or so. Real world is most shooters aren't going to spend that kind of dollars. My thoughts are a meat and potatoes rifle, not a seven course meal with with dessert. | |||
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Wink relates, in regard to CZ .375 rifles not ejecting properly, "We studied and found the problem, the retractable ejector can be held down if you stoke the bolt at a particular angle, not allowing it be placed well within the groove on the bolt." My CZ .375 has an ejecting problem also. If the above is the problem, how is it properly fixed? | |||
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Quote: 1. There is strong interest in big bore and huge bore rifles. (Note: the 338-06 is not a big bore.) By big bores we mean 404 Jeffer, 416 Rigby, 450 Rigby, 470 Mbogo (416 Rigby x .475"), 505 Gibbs, 500 Jeffery, 500 A-Square, 550 Express, 550 Magnum, 585 Nyati, 577 Tyrannosaur and 600 Overkill. 2. You might think the market for some of these cartridges is slim because there are not many of them out there. But there are not many out there because there are no companies serving this niche on a production or semi-production basis. If you want to build mainstream stuff, stick to 30-30's and 30-06's. 3. Making a pre-64 Winchester style action instead of a genuine mauser action is a cop-out. Dakota and Montana Rifleman are already doing that, so there is really no need for a new company to do the same thing. More importantly, a pre-64 action will not fit most of the cartridges listed above. 4. There is no need for more rifles in the $5K to $20K range. Dakota is even having some difficulty moving its product. The niche in my opinion is in the $1500 to $3000 range. 5. Perfect feeding is a must. And it takes time and attention to detail to make big bores feed. Having an engineering degree or experience with 1911's has nothing to do with getting a 500 Jeffery to feed. Right now there are probably only 5 or 6 gunsmiths in the U.S. who can do that perfectly every time, but we could use some more of them. 6. Most buyers want a traditional approach, such as a mauser action with a real mauser bolt release and real mauser internals, double square bridges with the same contour as the originals, drop magazine box, M70 safety, quarter rib, Obendorf bolt handle. There is nothing worse than a traditional action with someone's "good idea", such as a repro Mauser action with a Sako bolt release, or a repro Mauser action with a swept back bolt handle. Yuck! 7. A 0.750" or 0.800" bolt body diameter is desirable or even necessary for durability and stoutness. I do not think I need to go into why... Good luck! | |||
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I think that several of the people who are already in the business have recognized that there are two separate groups of people out there who can be sold a custom rifle: those who can afford a $5-10,000 super gun first class in every way and those who want a plain Jane working rifle that is tough as nails and reliable as can be made. From what the other guys are doing, I'd say that they make big bucks on the first group and pay the overhead with the second. I'd bet though, that from the smith's standpoint, the first group's guns are the fun one's to make except for the "whining" of the customers. I also bet that the second group won't whine as much, but will be very definite about what they want and what they'll accept! As a "user" I can state categorically that I could not afford a $7,500 bolt gun. If I were springing for that kind of bread, I'd put another 500 with it and by a Searcy double gun. It is probably a better "investment." I would pay $2000 to $2500 for a well made, feeds flawlessly, syn or laminated stocked rifle chambered in 30-06 and up. I think big bores are neat and have several, but there is a real market for the reliable, dependable, accurate, no frills hunting rifle in calibers from 6.5x55 to 9.3x62 and now 9.3x66, I've learned!) I believe that in this "plain Jane" class rifle, the M70 and M98 actions would have clear advantages. The M98 with standard length rounds made on the 06/8mm cases, and the M70 with magnum length, belted cases. They were designed respectively to feed and fire these; therefore, you start off having to blue-print or refining an existing design. The stocks should feel like those classic stocks already mentioned, but have the stability of synthetic or laminate materials. The new laminates made from nice figured walnut have potential as being attractive, stable, and capable of being checkered. (The new Winchester wood stocks are not bad looking. I wonder if they could be "laminized" so that their checkering is retained and they are toughened and stabilized?) The metal coatings should be tough, non-glare, and easily "touched" up. The ring and mount system should be hand-fitted, quick on/off and tough, as should the very simple iron sights. Good luck with your venture. Sounds like you all are planning an interesting retirement. Ku-dude | |||
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Wink, how did you guys fix that ejector problem? I imagine that the solution is relatively simple?  | |||
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Dork Lord, Since it didn't happen on my rifle, here is what the guys who have the problem tell me they are going to do. If you look at the bolt, you will notice a slot cut to allow passing over the retractable ejector. If you have a CZ 550, pull the bolt all the back and then maneuver the bolt into a position where this slot is not perfectly lined up with the extractor and you can see the basis of the problem. It is possible, on some CZ's, to get the bolt to slide/cycle in the receiver while covering somewhat the ejector rather than letting it spring back up into the slot. My friends tell we they will widen just slightly the slot to prohibit this from happening. They haven't examined the issue of the ejector spring strength as of yet, I don't know if they will. I would guess that a riflesmith with experience on CZ's can give you a better answer/description of the problem and the solution(s). | |||
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I AM much more of a "function over form" kinda guy. I Krinkle paint my hunt guns for protection from the elements. I have no problem doing heavy stippling to the front of the grip of a $1000 pistol if it makes it and me perform better. I am told by my friends that I have some of the ugliest guns on the planet. I also have some of the most reliable and bullet proof performing guns on the planet. IF you want to see what a "really ugly"(according to friends) .375 looks like you can go here, to the Canadian board, the thread titled "blue or stainless" and you can really see where I am coming from. http://www.accuratereloading.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB58&Number=807701&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=all A tremendous amount of funds can be chewed up by high luster deep bluing and finely turned and multicoated hand rubbed stock work. NONE OF WHICH has anything to do with the RELIABILITY or functioning of the firearm. I would rather see the time and money spent on the internals and then provide it with a bead blasted/teflon finish and a good servicable glass stock. IT is simply a matter of transferrence. Take the EXTRA $600 that would ordinarily be spent on the "looks" and spend it on making the action feel like it is on ball bearings and it's reliability is without question. THEN you also have a rifle you will not worry about dragging around the bush because you aren't concerned about scratching it up(a concept that has always amazed me. I know folks who spend bug bucks in guns then wont take them "out" because they don't want to "get it all scratched up.") No one expects to buy the Mona Lisa for $2000, BUT if it has a good barrel and performs flawlessly under all conditions it can still be a work of art. | |||
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Quote: YES, I Do hunt with the brake on. Most of my trigger time on a hunt is alone or only with one other person. I tell them to cover up when I get ready to shoot. Also I have spent soooooo much time shooting in my life, I can walk around with plugs just resting at the edge of the ear canals. I still have my hearing for what is gong on around me, THen just before aking a shot I just push them into place and take my shot. Because I don't get into jump shot situations with the .375or .340(at least so far) I have time to get the plugs seated. BUT yes, it IS loud with that brake on it. I haven't had the brake off of the rifle in years, BUT, I am getting a new bbl for it to spin on becasue I have almost 4000 rounds through the present one and it iIS getting a little thin. Will have to see how it shoots before the brake is spun on. It IS great though. We used to us it to demo the brake at different shoots and it was amazing to see these little hundred pound women with these huge smiles because they got to shoot a "big bore" rifle that kicked like their .243. It was nothing to have them burn 20 rounds, just standing there grinning and then telling their husbands They wanted THAT brake on THEIR rifle. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Re: Is there any interst in big bore riflles
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