Ok, I've been bitten by the big-bore bug, and I need a 416 Rigby. Don't try to sell me on a Rem Mag. I want the 416 for reasons beyond what you'll give. The way I see it, I have two good options: The Ruger 77 Magnum, or the CZ 550 African.

I know the price differences for the new factory rifles. I know which features each rifle has. Here's the excercise I'd like to undertake: take the CZ and make it like I want it, and THEN compare it to the Ruger. So...

550 African 416 Rigby: $750
Barrel band sling stud: $????
Quarter rib with express sights: $????
M70 style safety: $????
Bed the action: $????

Now that we've gotten there, I would guess we are about equal in price. I still like two features of the Ruger: 23" barrel and Classic-styled stock. So, to get the CZ to just where I liked it, we'd have to shorten the barrel and replace the stock. How much does that cost?

Also, the biggest question is: when this is all done, which is the better gun? If it took $2500 to get the CZ where I wanted it, I would not mind that if it was a significantly better rifle at it's core.

Any gunsmiths out there that can give a price estimate on the work mentioned above?

Any other comments?

The CZ 550 will shortly be available in .416 Rigby with an "American" style stock (actually made in the U.S). The gun will have a three-stage safety like a M-70, albeit, with a "rocker" style actuator. A barrel band swivel will need to be added. The stock finish should not be the standard CZ gorilla poop style and, at worst, could be stripped and hand rubbed. The sights should be the one-fixed, two folding. Retail is the same for the LUX model and you should be able to find one for less than $680.

I own both.

If both are customized and tuned to the max for function and individual fit:

The CZ is the better gun because it has a primary action recoil lug and a secondary recoil lug on the barrel.

The Ruger has only a recoil plate on the barrel, and no action recoil lug. Take one out of the stock and see. It is amazing that it works as well as it does.

All the rest is just cosmetics and money, and I don't care to get into that.

If you add the barrelband sling swivel and quarter rib, you'll need to include the cost of re-rinishing. Quarter ribs are big $'s if done right, you could easily spend as much on the quarter rib and re-finishing as the cost of the complete rifle.

To make the CZ comparable to the Ruger will cost alot more then the Ruger. But, the ruger could used a few touches as well, namely a larger safety and auxiliary barrel recoil lug.

Personally, I'd get the CZ.

Judge, any idea when this "American" 416 will make it's appearance? I've heard rumblings, but no signs of anything concrete. If that is the case, I would definately wait for the CZ.

TT,
the cz is 629 bucks, every day, on gunbroker.com.

if YOU do the work
the 3 pos is 150
a stock is about 400

if I didn't HAVE to restock it (which means adding a spacer and a f990 pad) i can live with or reshape the stock...

and the safety beats the F&**** out of the damn backwards 602 (after having one in my paws again last night)

jeffe

Paul H,
You are glossing over the lack of any action recoil lug on the Ruger RSM.

A barrel "nub" tied to a recoil plate is all the Rugers have. They have no primary recoil lug on the action! It is all on the barrel. The 45 degree front action screw on the RSM just snugs the recoil plate up against the "nub" on the barrel. This recoil plate has a projection that protrudes down into the forearm recess and abutts against the stock there.

What the Ruger needs is a primary action recoil lug, and convert the recoil plate on the barrel to a standard barrel lug.

So the Ruger actually needs BOTH a primary action recoil lug and a barrel recoil lug installed, and the whole recoil plate contraption discarded.

If you just add a standard recoil lug to the barrel, you have to discard the recoil plate, and you are still left with no action lug. It needs a Remington/Tubb/Washer-style lug added between the barrel and action, and that would be a lot of fitting work by a skilled gunsmith.

This is a more important issue for soundness of rifle than whether it has a quarter rib or not.

The CZ has an integral rear express sight base that does all that is needed.

Considering the Ruger has an integral quarter rib, barrel band front sight and swivel, plus a darn nice designed stock and a M-70 3 pos. safty, I don't how it can be beat for the money, they shoot good and the barrel alone on a custom rifle would cost you two grand....It is a bargin IMO....

I like the CZ also but it takes a bundle of money to get it to where I like it enough to hunt with....

Daggaron,
That is opinnion, Most Rugers are being used right out of the box..We have a couple in camp that have had the heck shot out of them and no problems...by the same token I know a lot of CZ that have busted the stocks, so its a crap shoot either I suspect...

It would be a simple job however to add a recoil ala Remington to a Ruger. I have seen that done, but I think a simple glass job would surfice on either one of them.

I would take the cz, I just plain like them and I will buy one of those American cz's in .416 Rigby at some stage to !!

Yes Ray, that is my opinion based on the facts that I stated. I have only one Ruger M77 Mark II Magnum RSM rifle, but I have many CZ 550 Magnum Safari rifles, and that is why. It is not just the out-of-the-box price difference.

Have you heard the rumor that Ruger is discontinuing the RSM's, brought to us by Steve?

CZ must be killing them sales wise, or have they wised up about their bedding system?

I highly doubt that ruger will discontinue the RSM's. They sell as soon as they come out of the factory. NO JOKE. The guy whos shop is right next to the Ruger warehouse rarely keeps them in for more than a week before they are gone.

NH_Hunter

Maybe the rumor is the joke. I didn't start it. Where's Steve?

PS: Also remember that the CZ has the "self-locking" extractor of the true Mauser 98. Ruger and Winchester CRF's do not. A member here reminded me of this bit of Mauser excellence that had plumb slipped my mind.

[ 10-16-2003, 07:40: Message edited by: DaggaRon ]

What about the safteys on both of them. I belive the Ruger MkII saftey just blocks the trigger. I don't have a CZ, but on my Mausers, the saftey pulls the fireing pin back and physically blocks it from going forward. That's a much more desireable feature in my mind.
?????????????

Gentlemen,

The Ruger safety does in fact block the firing pin. It's right there in plain sight when you engage the safety. I have a Ruger RSM in .416 Rigby, and it's by far the best out-of-the-box rifle I've ever seen. It shoots incredibly well, looks beautiful, and has a fantastic trigger.

I do like CZ rifles as well. I'm very interested in the new CZ American safari model. I may have to invesitgate one in .375.

Is a picture of the American style/made CZ Safari stock to be seen somewhere?
My biggest complain about the CZ 550 is its stock shape; but the US-made stock will probably not be available in Germany anyway, since we get the rifles directly from the CZ factory. Frankonia-Jagd, the largest hunting outfitter in Germany, is the main importer for all CZ guns and S&B ammo.
Sincerely,
Jake C.

This one?

@Cool Guy: thx for the picture. The American style stock can as well be seen on the www.CZ-USA.com website, on standard caliber rifles. And on your pic, I noticed a crossbolt behind the rear action screw. It is definitely an improvement in appearance and probably performance of the CZ 550 rifle line. Maybe an American stocked 550 Safari Magnum can be purchased, on special order, on my side of the Atlantic.
Sincerely,
Jake C.

[ 10-16-2003, 21:23: Message edited by: Jake Cutlass ]