Sorry about the poor quality of the photos...but they are as old as me. I'll hang them one at a time for you.



This was back when I was young and tough/stupid. I would just kick a few of the damn rocks out of the way, spread my blankey, flop down and fire for effect. That silly spot was overlooking a big old gravel pit with lots of junk stuff to shoot the hell out of.
Them were the days...shooting junk!

[ 01-31-2003, 06:00: Message edited by: Pecos45 ]

Right side of the gun. Notice my supersonic Buck Rogers ear plugs. If you look closely at my bottom lip, you may be able to see thin line of blood where the BITCH gun smote me that fateful day. I still got the binocs and my trusty Cabellas camo jacket.

[ 01-31-2003, 06:06: Message edited by: Pecos45 ]

The instant of firing. Notice dust blown out from muzzle break.



What was I shooting at that day? A jackrabbit about 1/4 of a mile away. Never did get his ass but I think I scared him good.

Grand old pictures Pecos - please post pictures of your 20mm Lahti as well - we'd love to see them.

Some of the old literature that I have on the Boys says that the Boys 55 round was based om a sporting rifle round. I can't believe this - do you know anything about it's history before the original anti tank rifle was designed? Thanks in advance for the info.

My dad used to own one of these rechambered in .50cal. Great fun!

Nice pics Pecos.
In my reference book you don't get an idea on the size untill you see some one holding it. I would love to have a shot of one of those baby's.

Buck Rogers eh....your showing your age there mate.

Bakes

Mehul - Good to hear from you. Thank you for rubbing it in about the OLD pictures.

At least you didn't ask me if those photos were taken by "flash powder."

Afraid I can't answer your questions very well about it. My information states the rifle/cartridge were named in honor of a British Captain Boys who was instrumental in its development and died just before its release in 1936. It was first released with a Monopod. Mine had a Bi-pod. Recoil is what I would describe as "vicious"...but of course I shot it PRONE where I soaked up every ounce of recoil it had to offer.

The British later developed a "paratrooper version" of this gun, if you can believe it. Modifications were a short barrel and a chicken feather stuffed recoil pad! Only problem was the short barrel didn't develop enough velocity for the round to be effective. It was quite marginal at best to begin with...especially against the wild and crazy tank tactics the Germans employed in WW-2. By 1941 the Boys ATG was pretty much scrap iron and rarely seen on a battlefield after that.

The belted case does, in my mind, add some merit to your suggestion the cartridge was based somehow on a sporting cartridge. Did the British originate belted cases? I'm not that much of a cartridge historian.

Anyway it was an interesting toy at that crazy stage in my life. Hard to believe I was ever that young.

I'll see can I find my Lahti photos.

Army surplus dont mean what it used to. I wish I had gotten to see barrels of GI 1911s, and anti-tank rifles at give away prices. (Yeah I know back then a dollar was worth almost $1.04 ) I ponder a time when the idea of an anti-tank rifleman was a serious one.

I bet that rabbit still remebers you Pecos.

Kristofer

[ 01-31-2003, 12:13: Message edited by: KBGuns ]

Thanks Pecos for the cartridge history. I am sure that now that the "sporting cartridge" abgle has been brought up, someone on AR is going to revive the round and try to chamber a sporting rifle for it!

The old pictures bit was a mistake - I'm sorry, but I sometimes consider myself prehistoric having lived through times when there was no television in my country until today when we produce some of the world's best Six Sigma software companies. I guess I'm a dinosaur and you're a young man in comparison!

Good shooting!

Great Pics Pecos
All I can add is ,I remember that the .55
Had a LOT more recoil than the .50 BMG round
my friend had his rebarreled to.

Great photo's Pecos. You brought back a lot of memories. One of the gents in the local gun club (Canadian Historical Arms Society) has two of the Boyes, one in the original 55 and one rebarreled to 50 BMG (much easier to get ammo for). I had one of the Lahti's back in the seventies for a while. shot off the ammo I had, and never found any more, so I sold it. I kick myself now. Sure tore up my uncle's gravel pit and a couple of old wrecked cars, though. - Dan

Hell, you guys... remember, that rifle is just an SKS turned upsidedown.. pecos at but 5'2!!!!!!

just kidding, thanks for sharing, pal
jeffe

Dan - I think I saw Lahti ammo advertised somewhere recently...but of course the minute you buy any the government would probably be all over you. They sure would in the colonies!

That Lahti is a honey. The one I have always wanted to see and fire is the Swiss Solothurn.
That had to be the ultimate...although similar the the Lahti.

The Boys is extremely crude compared to either of these guns.

By the way, the Russians had an ATG somewhat copied after the Boys...and you talk about CRUDE with no frills.

Story was the Russians given this gun were more afraid of the gun than they were the German tanks!

Pecos45
Now for the dumb questions.
How do you look through the mag while sighting the gun.
Also do you still have any cartridges? If so take a picture next to something real common, like a 30-06, and post it.
You talk about how crude it is, but it doesn�t look any worse than a lot of the commercial 50 BMG shell holder type guns, I mean at least it�s a repeater.
What did you pay for it back in the Day?
Last dumb ? . Can you still buy them.
I was thinking it would make a good stopping rifle ...for a big charging Louisiana doe.
Any why great pictures Pecos.
Shawn

Bluetick - Not stupid questions at all!

First, the sights are NOT down the barrel. As with the Lahti and most other ATG's of the era, the sights are on the left side of the gun. Obviously there were NO left handed anti-tank gunners. You can get a real good idea where they are in picture #3 where the gun is firing. The front sight is well visible in that photo.

Picture #2 LOOKS like the rear peep sight squarely behind the magazine...but in fact I believe that is the clip release. You push that forward and it unlocks the clip. Again, the sights are on the side.

I used to have a fully loaded round for this gun that I kept but don't know where it is. I'll do some looking. It really looks like a .50BMG with a belt. I DO HAVE a fired case from the 20mm Lahti and I'll try to set it up and get a picture of it this weekend.

If my feeble memory can be trusted, I paid $150 for the gun back in 1965...and ammo was $1 each.

[ 02-04-2003, 09:51: Message edited by: Pecos45 ]

That price sounds pretty accurate Pecos. I have old adverts here selling the solothurns and the like in the late 50's for around $180. That makes me even more upset than missing the african game fields of 100 years ago! Damn I was born at the wrong time.

Bakes,
I think some of the Boys penetration figures have been muddled up over the years though.You mentioned 25mm (or 1 " for our imperial friends ). I have read 17/32" of armour penetration as good as it gets at 100 yards' for the boys. However another report shows that testfires on the Italian M 39 tanks say the same penetration at 1000 yards.
Not sure which is correct as both figures seem to be at opposite extremes. At 100 yards 17/32" is pitiful performance;- if 1000 it means the penetration would be rivalling the mighty 20mm solothurns at close range etc. which I doubt it could.
Whichever case the boys was the most produced AT rifle of them all.
Incidentally the two sols could get over 1.5" penetration at 100 yards. The danish Madsen 20mm, got about 1.65" at same but was a less popular model.
The boys, originally called the Stanchion rifle was probably most inspired in design by the bren gun.
Pecos, your boys was the later model,canadian made under US lease and reported as an improvement over the british version.
Great pics.

Karl.

[ 02-05-2003, 03:08: Message edited by: Karl ]

Karl, thanks for the additional info. Man if they used to sell Solothurns and Lahti for about the same price as my Boys...then I'm gonna be sick. There is no comparison between these guns. The Lahti and Solothurn were awesome rifles of far-out design. I think the last time I saw a Solothurn advertised (which was years ago) it was listed for over $3,000. Some, I believe, even had a special scope. Unfortunately none of the shoulder fired ATG's were effective against tanks in WW-2.

"Man if they used to sell Solothurns and Lahti for about the same price as my Boys...then I'm gonna be sick."

Yeah, I think they were both well under $200 including 10 rounds of ammo.

T-Bob - Lie to me, Dude. Say it ain't so!

(Of course back then I don't think I knew a Solothurn from a Solar Eclipse.)

Those were the days. Neither one would fit in a sea bag though. Get out your copy of "Unintended Consequences". The ads are reproduced therein.

the big solo, the s18-1000, 220lbs on wheels, had a collectors market value of $635.00 in 1957 but someone must have dug a heap of these things up and flooded the market sometime after that.

Is there anywhere over there you guys can still own or fire one?

Karl.

Best I can do you is a picture of it Karl. You were talking about penetration of these guns and here are the specs my book shows: .55Boys has a muzzle velocity of 3,200fps, penetrations is rated at 20mm at 500m/0 deflection.

The Germans had an interesting 7.92 mm ATG that cranked out a muzzle velocity of 3,975fps! Penetration for this little darling was 25mm at 300m. Cartridge was a 13mm case necked down to 7.92.

The Solothurn or S 18-1000 as it was known as has a muzzle velocity of only 3,000fps but penetration is up to 35mm at 300m.

Believe it or not the Japs had a 20mm ATG that could actually fire FULL AUTO. Very few were ever used against US forces and mostly against landing craft rather than tanks...which was a good thing as our tanks were almost immune to it. Muzzle velocity of the Jap gun was pitiful 2,640 and penetration only 12mm at 200m.

Interesting guns!

Hey Pecos !!
This Japanese ATG was called TYPE-97 i think.
They weighed too much to be carried around in the field. I believe it weighed 97,5 kilograms !!
And had to be carried,and handled by three men.

I certainly would like to get me a Lahti-finnish ATG,,with that enormously large magazine-box and rotating muzzle brake !

Oddly enough, here in Canuckistan, the light AT guns aren't legislated beyond the same rules as for your grandpa's 30-06. They are expensive though, and ammo (and even reloading tools and components) are very difficult to find and cost a lot when you do. We had a short run of artillary pieces sold here a short time ago, these aren't legislated either. 25 pounders (a battery of them, just what I've always wanted), a PAK gun, an 88, a Russian 150 mm, all sorts of goodies. If I can just convince the wife, I "need" one of these for my yard. - dan

There have been some interesting comments on AT penetration here. I have seen armor plate (around 1/2" as I recall with holes blown right through it with hot 87 gr 25-06 and 220 swift loads. In the same plate were dings (but no holes) made with 30-06 AP rounds.

Pecos,

Those are really cool pictures! I'm going to regret typing this next question/comment, but I will anyway. Looking at picture #2, has anyone ever said that you look like Kevin Costner? Man! That was painful.

Longbob - I'm not sure how you ment that since I consider Keven Costner a dumbass who can't act his way out of a paper sack.

Hmmmm. Come to think of it, I'm pretty much a dumbass who probably couldn't act his way out of a paper sack either!

But anyway...since I WAS HERE FIRST on this best of all possible worlds, the truth of the matter is Kevin Costner LOOKS LIKE ME....not vice versa.

And if he is going to run around looking like me, he should at least take some acting lessons.

Pecos,

At first I meant it as a compliment and that is what made it so difficult. Since you pointed out a few of his shortcommings, I feel much better about my observation.

[ 02-06-2003, 04:41: Message edited by: Longbob ]

I thought that would make the medicine go down a little easier.

By the way, Longbob...have you hugged your Whelen today?

[ 02-06-2003, 04:59: Message edited by: Pecos45 ]

Pecos,

With your access to attorneys, I am very surprised that you haven't filed against me in a custody battle for my Whelen.

[ 02-06-2003, 05:05: Message edited by: Longbob ]

Where could an old Boyes be found?Would be perfect
as a reciever to put test barrels in for my big
wildcat project.Wouldn't even need a good barrel.
Could even use one with shot out barrel and rebore
to .620.Ed.

Shotgun News? Military Surplus links on line? Those would be the first to places I would look.

Bruce the sights are on the left side of the gun, so your head is in an unnatural position to start with. And also I was likely in the process of soaking up the recoil from this thing...which was quite substantial.