I recently purchased a New Haven Winchester Classic Stainless 375 H and H. The black synthetic stock seems weak. Should it be replaced? Any recommendations on a replacement?

lb

McMillan.

HS Precision

LB, the M70 375 is a nice rifle. There are many aftermarket stocks out there in addition to the ones given above. Many stocks are designed to reduce weight over the factory original, but you don't need to be concerned with that on a 375. Bell & Carlson, Hi Tech Specialties, McMillan, HS Precision, and other will all offer replacement stocks, depending on how much you want to spend.

I have the same rifle and when I first bought it I thought a stock replacement was in it's future.
Then I started shooting it.
With Reloader 15 powder and 300 grain TSX Barnes the rifle prints sub 1" groups.
This is with the factory "hot glue" bedding material.
I left it as it is and am very happy with it. The factory stock is slim and trim and doesn't appear to affect accuracy negatively.
Just my experience so don't let that stop you if its a new stock you want.

I have the same rifle, re-chambered to 375 Weatherby, and replaced the tupperware stock with a HS Precision Classic Sporter. Best thing I ever did with that rifle, in fact, all of my Model 70's now wear the same stocks, except for 2 Extreme Weather models with the Bell & Carlson factory stocks, which I don't like too much, they'll probably get replaced with HS Precision stocks eventually.

Cheers.

I've had good luck with the B&C Medalist. These are the ones with the aluminum skeleton. Not as expensive as a McMillan, much faster turn around time, and can easily be ordered to your LOP. You will probably need to open the channel but that's easy enough. I have one with an Interarms 458, no problem with holding up to the recoil and accurate.

quote:

Originally posted by LB:
I recently purchased a New Haven Winchester Classic Stainless 375 H and H. The black synthetic stock seems weak. Should it be replaced? Any recommendations on a replacement?

lb

Don't be too hasty to discard the synthetic stock that came with it.
I have a rifle just like yours that I had simply rechambered to .375 Wby and had the hot glue bedding at the primary recoil lug re-done with epoxy.
It is still my personal record "Big Bore Benchrester" after all these years.



I also have the same make rifle (Connecticut-made Win M70 Classic Stainless) that started life as 270 Win Featherweight. Accurate with hot glue bedding, but such a common caliber!
It was rebarreled to 35 Brown-Whelen with same epoxy bedding of primary recoil lug. Accurate.
Then another rebarreling to 400 Whelen-Petrov-Berry of 2013.
Somewhere along the way it also got pillars added to the plastic.
Still shoots like the proverbial "house afire" even while fire-forming brass.
Same OEM synthetic stock and three barrels so far.





I have Winchester M70s still in synthetic stocks by Brown Precision (granddaddy of them all), McMillan, HS Precision, latest Bell & Carlson Medalist which is like the ones coming as OEM on the latest "Ultimate Weather" factory models, and the cheaper OEM synthetic "Ultimate Shadow" as well as the older OEM synthetic (subject of OP) on a short action (WSM).

If you must get a new stock, I think the B&C Medalist is the best buy.

Pillars added to the OEM Connecticut plastic:



Even though this is the featherweight version of the Connecticut plastic stock, there is nothing weak about it.
Abuse it all you want and you cannot make it look worse.

My exact same rifle shot pretty well in the factory stock but I just didn't like it. I put it in a doscarded wooden M70 stock that I picked up from a custom stock maker. It shoots really well. I am going to McM made at some point though. I already have the Echols Legend stocks...

Quite a few years ago I did some extensive accuracy testing with stocks and I used mainly the 358 STA as the calibre. The reason for the 358 STA is using an Australian match barrel of .357 ( a thou undersize) and 1 in 14 twist has proved to be the most accurate big bore I have used.

The synthetic type stocks (as in your M70), fibreglass and wood.

The barrelled actions were match grade and number 5, about .72" at muzzle of 26" barrel, Jewell trigger etc.

Stocks used were the M70 like you have and in fact from a 375, Rem 700 from their stainless/synthetic and also Mark V synthetic of their 375 H&H. Also used were wood stocks which were from Rem 700 in 416, M70 375 and Mark V 378 stock.

Results with Mark V were hard to determine and a couple of reasons. No 2 ounce Jewell trigger and the bedding configuration of a Mark V Wby is not as good as the M70 or Rem 700.

The fibreglass stocks were McMillan.

In order of best accuracy

1) The synthetic rubber type stocks, as per your M70 375.

2) Wood stock.

3) Fibreglass.

Other testing I had done using an alloy stock we have in Australia and using different compounds for both bedding and also "glue ins" pretty much predicted the above results. In short the stock/bedding can be too hard.

Now before someone jumps in about benchresters using glass stocks ( I have done benchrest) that is a different situation. The barrelled action of a benchrest PPC has very low recoil/impact on the stock and the stocks are very light as they are hollow (one reason "glue ins are used).

In short, if you change the stock on your M70 375 then don't make the change on any basis of potential accuracy or other function.

It seems RIP's results fit the above.

Very interesting, Mike.
I believe you.
Accuracy and strength/durability are no issues with the plastic stocks on those old M70 Classic Stainless rifles from the early 1990s.
The only problem I have seen with them is that they cause erectile dysfunction of the pinky finger in many shooters, know what I mean?

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Very interesting, Mike.
I believe you.
Accuracy and strength/durability are no issues with the plastic stocks on those old M70 Classic Stainless rifles from the early 1990s.
The only problem I have seen with them is that they cause erectile dysfunction of the pinky finger in many shooters, know what I mean?

Agree..100%

I like the McMillan as it can be had in a drop belly configuration to take the Sunny Hill bottom metal giving you an extra round in the mag.

Yep, I have one of those drop-belly McMillan stocks paired with the required Sunnyhill bottom metal on an M70.
That is about a $1000 proposition for parts and labor.

For about 50 bucks you can use the Wiebe XRM trapezoidal box to replace the current box inside that OEM synthetic stock.
This will give you 4 down in the .375 H&H box with no drop-belly dramas, sort of like with a Pre-64 M70.

Thanks for the great info.
lb

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Yep, I have one of those drop-belly McMillan stocks paired with the required Sunnyhill bottom metal on an M70.
That is about a $1000 proposition for parts and labor.

For about 50 bucks you can use the Wiebe XRM trapezoidal box to replace the current box inside that OEM synthetic stock.
This will give you 4 down in the .375 H&H box with no drop-belly dramas, sort of like with a Pre-64 M70.

RIP......... sadly Duane does not manufacture the XRM trapezoidal box/spring/follower parts any longer. I checked. Disappointing as it sounded like an easy improvement.

Oops, so much for the fifty-dollar-plus-one option.

Duane decided it was bad for business to offer such a cheap option?



Or were there some other problems with his XRM box that I am not aware of?

Yeah I see no difference in accuracy between the factory Tupperware and my bling McMillan unfortunately. Glad I kept it. Got a few other rifles I can use it with pillars. And I'll stick to 3+1 I wanted that new box mag but extra round not worth $1000 I can practice reloading off belt much cheaper

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Oops, so much for the fifty-dollar-plus-one option.

Duane decided it was bad for business to offer such a cheap option?



Or were there some other problems with his XRM box that I am not aware of?

Actually no, he said most complained it was to expensive so he quit making them.

Amazing! My XRM boxes are collector's items now. Penny wise and pound foolish comes to mind.

CDNN has leftover factory (New Haven) walnut stocks for the 375/416/458 for $99.

I like the walnut/SS look personally.

Not the best for nasty weather, but still a nice looking stock for the money.


http://www.cdnnsports.com/winc...ck.html#.Vm4yibQkDBw

Years ago I bought a Winchester Express stock for my stainless rifle because I liked that Walnut and Stainless look too.
However when I fitted it up the Express stock was unfortunately big and clunky and thick in the wrist, I liked the slim trim feel of the original plastic stock way better so switched back.
I've since picked up a CDNN Super Grade stock that is far slimmer I may make the change with that but the old Win plastic stock is so accurate and durable I keep having second and third thoughts.

Those original Winchester, and Ruger, "tupperware" stocks have works very well on numerous rifles in our camps over the past 25 years. Properly bedded they are accurate and the inevitable nicks, scratches and dings that all real hunting rifles gain are a non-event.

quote:

Winchester, and Ruger, "tupperware" stocks

The Ruger boat paddle must be one of the toughest stocks out there.

Do you want to re-shape your stock a bit and refinish to better that factory look? Well do ya?

I have been using semi and full inletted wood laminated stocks lately. Here is what I do.

It is easy, as you may know, to change a laminated stock a bit to suit you. Take all the fihish off. Just use furniture finish remover and coarse steel wool. (Just use a tooth brush on the checkering.) Sand it down to your personal preferences 80-120 grit. Go slowly, that 80 grit realy cuts and leave the chechering alone. Smooth it with progressively finer sand paper. Go to about 220 or finer if you want.

An oil finish is a lot easier than some people think. Start with pure tung oil mixed 4 to 1 with mineral spirits and rub it on your stock. Keep it wet and "wet sand" it in with 400 - 600 grit. Small piece of sand paper on a small rubber block in small circular motion keeping it wet. don't press hard! This takes wood dust from the stock and rubs it into the pores of the wood. Levels everything out. No need to work too hard at it. Wipe of the excess, wait two days and do it once more. Wipe of excess and leave it for 2-3 days. When dry, wipe down with a dab of mineral spirits on a rag in case you still have a glob of oil hiding out on your stock.

For the above process you could use other oil to - your call.

You could stop there and have an old school oil stock but it will get dirty lookin with time.

So, please continue.

You could even forget about the above and go strait to the next step. (I always do the above. I used to do many applications of the above and now think it doesn't make much difference. Just a bit of the above works wonders.)

Final Step. Birchwood Casey True Oil! This product has pissed off many a gunsmith, but it really works if do the steel wool part!

Find a fairly dust free room. That's usually not your work shop. I like the dining room. chuckle. I like to do this when my wife is out shopping. Spread out some newspaper. get two pencils to set the finished stock on, and a piece of paper towel so the wife thinks you are tidy. Turn on every light in the room!

Tip the small bottle of True-Oil upside down with the tip of your biggest finger pressed on the open top. Now you have a dap of tru oil on your finger. That is all the tru-oil you need to start spreading it thinly/evenly on your stock, a small area at a time. Keep tipping oil on your finger and spreading. Start at the butt end and keep holding the stock with you other hand, thumb in the sling swivel hole and fingers in the berrel channel. When the stock is completely covered place it, trigger side up, on the pencils. Smart guys have a wire hook hanging from the chandelier. Let it dry there for a 3-4 hours or until the wife comes home. Hopefully the family doesn't stir up too much lint and dust.

Next examine the dry stock under a good light. You should see a disgusting mess, That is a good thing. Lots of lint and mysterious llttle bumps and places that you missed or that just soaked so much it looks like you missed it. That's what the 000 or 0000 steel wool is for. ( I like 0000 steel wool BirchWood Casey suggests 000 grade. Just make sure your steel wool is a nice new piece every time.) It is impossible to have a good job in the first two applications.

Now, Go to your shop, this is messy, and lighly sand the whole stock with the steel wool almost down the bare wood. Clean of with air or a small dab of mineral spirits on a a rag. The apllication of the true-oil tapes about 10 minutes and the sanding with steel wool takes less than ten minutes. It's the waiting for it to cure that takes so long. Sand lightly; that stuff sands down fast.

Do the same thing again: spread it on and sand it off. Each time you can sand less of it off. if you like shiny, don't sand too much. For the old, hand polished look, sand a bit more. I usuall do the drill 3-4 times. It just doesn't matter because you always can brush it bach to a satin finish with the steel wool. One time I made a mess of the wole project and just sanded the whole stock with 0000 steel wool almost back to the wood and one more applicationa and it was perfect.

For the sanding, sand very lightly and use a good light to get an even look. That is the secret!


Everything I said above takes about an hour and a half of work and lots a waiting patiently. It's the fastest way get a finish that will look like a Swede in the forest toiled all winter on it.

Also. Glass bedding your action or recoil lugs is another myth. it's easy! So a Semi Inletted stock is no problem for any one. let me know if you are interested. Brian

I have a Classic stainless in .375 as well. I also have a stainless Alaskan in .338 with the laminated stock. I quite like that laminated stock and was thinking about trying to get one like it to put on the Classic.

Does anyone know what company supplied the laminate stocks for the Alaskans? I have been wondering if they are from Boyd's?

I don't mind the tupperware stock on the classic, it is functional, but prefer the look and feel of the laminate and a bit fuller butt as is on the Alaskan stock.

Hmmm . . . Bringing this back around. I am thinking about redoing my Winchester Classic tupperware stock versus the McMillan replacement. Reading all that above is positive.

For you guys that have worked with the factory stock do you recommend pillar bedding, and re bedding the lug and some skim bedding forward of it. Or just the pillars and the lug.

Mine is a 300 Weatherby so I was thinking pillars would help keep everything located in the same place and the recoil lug and action would keep its accuracy or improve it.

Maybe I can find a good stock painter too. I have never had a stock painted. Would you paint it first and then bed the rifle?

To do a new McMillan stock and bedding and cerakote my stainless Model 70 can get up there in price pretty quick.

Thanks for your inputs guys.