Has anyone experienced excessive stretching and damage to brass cases whilst using Swift A Frames?

I must have shot at least a couple of thousand 500gr A-frames from my Lott at 2275fps.I never had any issues with the Hornady brass I was using.I would reload the brass a few times-never wrote down how many times.I had some case head separation on cases shooting the 405gr Remington bullet but that was because I used the cases too many times and did not throw them away even after the first head separation.I have a Wilson trimmer that I use to trim the brass down after a few firings.

No, never (using them since 1991).

George

YES!!!

I personally had an issue in 2004 while using the 500 gr from my Lott. After many long discussions over a 6 month period with Bill Hobber, president of Swift Bullets, and Larry Barnett of Superior Ammunition, there was no consensus as to the cause. Mine was not the only case Larry experienced with clients using the 500 gr bullet and he stopped loading them and recommended the 450 gr which never produced similar issues. It is my understanding that the same problem exists periodically today. I love the Swift A-Frame in other loads but it cost me a wounded and lost Kudu and several Buff in Zambia that year. Never again!

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
YES!!!

I personally had an issue in 2004 while using the 500 gr from my Lott. After many long discussions over a 6 month period with Bill Hobber, president of Swift Bullets, and Larry Barnett of Superior Ammunition, there was no consensus as to the cause. Mine was not the only case Larry experienced with clients using the 500 gr bullet and he stopped loading them and recommended the 450 gr which never produced similar issues. It is my understanding that the same problem exists periodically today. I love the Swift A-Frame in other loads but it cost me a wounded and lost Kudu and several Buff in Zambia that year. Never again!

How about describing your issue?

The case "extruded" when fired. That is to say that the case neck extended into the chamber! This could have happened on some cartridges I fired where the cases were not recovered before I actually noticed it had happened - a very severe example - but it apparently did not happen every time.

The accuracy of these rounds was highly questionable, as they were not impacting on POA. A good, steady, resting hold on the Kudu went very high and the impact on the hump was visible as dust and hair flew at impact. At least one Buff was hit somewhere other than POA and another two may have missed entirely. Fortunately I was able to kill my Lion with one of these loads.

Upon my return all unused rounds and all recovered brass was sent to Larry Barnett for examination. This was all new ammo loaded by Superior Ammunition. Swift Bullets is aware there have been multiple clients who have had issues with the .458 500 gr. Swift A-Frame bullet. I never believed the issue was with Superior Ammunition. I have never had an incident with any other A-Frame and continue to use them, with the exception of the .458 500 gr. bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
The case "extruded" when fired. That is to say that the case neck extended into the chamber! This could have happened on some cartridges I fired where the cases were not recovered before I actually noticed it had happened - a very severe example - but it apparently did not happen every time.

The accuracy of these rounds was highly questionable, as they were not impacting on POA. A good, steady, resting hold on the Kudu went very high and the impact on the hump was visible as dust and hair flew at impact. At least one Buff was hit somewhere other than POA and another two may have missed entirely. Fortunately I was able to kill my Lion with one of these loads.

Upon my return all unused rounds and all recovered brass was sent to Larry Barnett for examination. This was all new ammo loaded by Superior Ammunition. Swift Bullets is aware there have been multiple clients who have had issues with the .458 500 gr. Swift A-Frame bullet. I never believed the issue was with Superior Ammunition.

Strange,I never heard of such thing.From what I understood about swift not recommending the 500gr bullet,it was because of powder compaction issues in the 458WM.

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
I have never had an incident with any other A-Frame and continue to use them, with the exception of the .458 500 gr. bullet.

You can ad the 450grners to that list now as what happened to you happened exactly the same to me.

I use molly coated bullets always.I don`t know if this could have prevented it from happening.I wonder why this has not happened or we have yet to hear of it happening in other chamberings?

Where you keeping case length in check? Cleaning regularly? What make of brass were you using?

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
I have never had an incident with any other A-Frame and continue to use them, with the exception of the .458 500 gr. bullet.

You can ad the 450grners to that list now as what happened to you happened exactly the same to me.

Oz-

Thanks for the info and Pics. First I ever heard of this with the 450 gr. Good to know.

BTW, this "failure" could cause the loss of life, as the bullets don't go to POA when this happens. Totally unpredictable POI!!!

BTW, I am now using CEB exclusively for DG. The A-Frame is now PG only in my .300wm.

This a new one for me too!

I have noticed that Swift A-Frames seem to produce higher pressure signs and lower velocities than same weight and caliber of Nosler Partition.

I think the Swift is pure copper outside.
That is "stickier"/higher coefficient of friction, than the gilding metal type copper alloys in other bullets.

If the neck of the chamber is tight and the bullet maybe on the plus side of diameter:
Could this cause delayed release of the bullet and stretch on the case neck prior to release of bullet?

Pressure spikes too!

Maybe reaming the neck a bit wider in the chamber would relieve the situation?

RIP,
Speaking to other A Frame user, it seems usual that cases that fire them require more re sizing than other bullets. Even when using a connetic hammer they seem harder to pull than others.
Your comment on higher friction is what we have come up with.

NOTE; other bullets were used and loaded at the same time with no problem.
Winchester cases with a sight crimp were used.

All 500gr A-frames[URL= ]458WM AA2230 100yds open sights,off the bench[/URL] [URL= ]458 Lott,100yds,open sights,off the bench[/URL] [URL= ]458Lott 100yds,opensights,off the bench a-frames and Woodleighs[/URL] [URL= ]458 Lott,100yds open sights,offhand[/URL] A jar of JB doesn`t cost much.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
RIP,
Speaking to other A Frame user, it seems usual that cases that fire them require more re sizing than other bullets. Even when using a connetic hammer they seem harder to pull than others.
Your comment on higher friction is what we have come up with.

If even the kinetic bullet puller is different with Swifts,
then the neck diameter of the chamber is not an issue,
and also unlikely in standard chamber and ammo combinations.
What do we call this case stretching effect of Swift bullets?
The Swift Stretch?

Inside neck lubrication with graphite or moly,
moly coat bullets ... ?

... From my cold, dead hands,
... or when I go blind,
... but I will keep the shotguns if just blind.