quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
465,

How would you define quality? Function, artistry? or a combination. We all know that a AHR CZ 550 #2 upgrade is about as functional and reliable as you can get. It sets no standards for artistry. You do not require minute of angle accuracy for a Cape Buffalo at 50 yards.
I do not intend to be condecending.
What is the yardstick here?

EZ

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
It is worth noting that the original Rigby Co. produced at least three grades of double rifles. Their best grade was the full back action sidelock that we are all familiar with. The second and third grades were Anson & Deeley pattern box locks. They were differentiated from each other and the best grade by wood quality, action contour refinements, engraving and other unspecified cost saving measures. I owned a an early No 3 Grade for a short time in 450 nitro but didn't keep it because it had 28" barrels and was too heavy at 11.5 lbs. for me.

I think we just need to look at the currently produced Rigby's, either London or california, and judge them by their quality.

465H&H

quote:

The CalRigby bolt rifles in the past were made by Reto Buehler and Jim Tucker, two of the best craftsmen you could find. Most Europeans only wish they could do the same Quality of work.
Also back in the early 90'S I built barreled actions for Paul Roberts. Reason I point this out is that most of you guys out there has no idea what goes on in this trade.

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
One thing that sayes it all about a company, is when a company established a couple years ago, and hardly ever build more than a few weapons, offers you and your successors lifetime waranty.

IMHO ther are 2 options
1 they are loaded with money.
2 they are loaded with BS

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Ghubert,

I just snorted coffee thru my nose onto the keyboard and monitor when I read about Roberts building a quality DR! The DRs he is building (err having built) in London are done so to try and bolster support in his court cases and allow him to advertise "London built". He bought a name and has been pimping the license to build under that name for a couple decades. Nothing more.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
One thing that sayes it all about a company, is when a company established a couple years ago, and hardly ever build more than a few weapons, offers you and your successors lifetime waranty.

IMHO ther are 2 options
1 they are loaded with money.
2 they are loaded with BS

Or alternatively, they just might have faith in their skills and their product......

Just because they're launching a new company and what I believe will be a very good product based soundly on excellent and proven design, doesn't mean they're inexperienced in the trade because that simply isn't the case.

I for one am more than willing to wait until the product is available and then let it stand or fall on it's own merits and I reckon anyone that isn't prepared to do that is either viewing them with alarm because they're worried about the competition or is making nothing more than childish assumptions based on nothing more than prejudice.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Mate, I've never even seen the inside of a betting shop but I'd be happy to wager a bottle of Ardbeg that the new doubles will turn out to be a very good product at a very fair price..... esp when comparing to doubles of a similar spec from other manufacturers.

Although quite how we'd establish the parameters of the bet I don't know!

quote:

If you are the original purchaser. Should the metal parts of your John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers) Ltd. shotgun or rifle fail through normal use, for any reason, including wear, we will repair your rifle or shotgun, free of charge, irrespective of age, for as long as you own it.



Time marches on and eventually we all pass on the life of adventures to those who must follow. In regretful acknowledgement of the inevitability of this, we also offer to our clients:



Pass your John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers) Ltd. gun to your immediate family, Son or Daughter, Niece or Nephew, Grandson or Granddaughter and we here at John Rigby & Co. will extend that guarantee to them and their issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Ghubert,

I just snorted coffee thru my nose onto the keyboard and monitor when I read about Roberts building a quality DR! The DRs he is building (err having built) in London are done so to try and bolster support in his court cases and allow him to advertise "London built". He bought a name and has been pimping the license to build under that name for a couple decades. Nothing more.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:

To me a guarantee like this looks alarming. How can it be possible for any company to back this up in lets say 70years from now???
Have anyone ever heard of any weapon that has no chance of wear or break. if used regularly over decades.
I dont even think that the old and famouse companys could back sutch a guarantee.
Ewen the large optics companies are backing on their 30years guarantee.

How can a relativly new company with limited fundings, truly belive that they can make their grandchildren cover sutch guarantee.

Personaly i dont know more than a few of the peoples behind the company, and i dont know how their products is finished. It might be excelent. But guarantees like this makes me wonder

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

I don't see why it's such a problem for you.

There are plenty of quality rifles and shotguns out there that are still going strong after 100 years or so. For example, I own an 85 year old shotgun that to the best of my knowledge has only been opened once since new. (and I know it's entire history)
I also have a shotgun 100years old that never has ben opened. But i never heard of any brand with 100years old products, where none has ben repaired. And that is the whole isue. I have on yearly base customers that wears out riflebarrels, because they shoot a lot, and i wouldn't be proud to give that kind of guarantee (i dont belive that our barrels wears out faster than most others) Do you realy belive that any new company can back that kind of guarantee, if a doublerifle owner in 40years wants to have new barrels on his doublerifle, with chupperlumps individualy handfitted barrels

Purely from a business point of view, I'd say it's a very good move. Firstly, it's likely that a large percentage of these firearms will be sold outside the family over the years and secondly even if it does stay in the same family when it breaks down in years hence, they may well be unaware of the guarantee and pay a local man to fix it. In my eyes, such a guarantee is a bloody good sales move that in reality probably won't cost them much at all.
I ame a pretty oldfashioned guy, and i belive that if you put out a guarantee, you should be sure that you can back it up.

As for the large optics companies, some at least, make a lifetime guarantee rather than the 30 years you mention. (Swarovski for one).
most optics company is presently reducing their waranty preiods. Zeiss now only 10years (2 on electronics) Swarovski has also reduced their former 30years, and is only giving 2 on electronic. Kahles the same, Smidt & bender the same i guess. Leupold is the one that offers leal lifetime no BS. This basic change is IMHO good, as it gives a more realistic picture. What Leupold often does, is to give you a new, instead of reparing the old, and discountinued model

As for their fundings..... how do you or anyone else have any idea whether their fundings are limited or if so, how limited? - Quite honestly, to me at least, such suggestions smack of nothing more than cheap, amateurish industrial espionage tactics.

I don't know if you're in the gun industry and are worried about the competition or not, but you sure make it sound like that's the case.
Yes i ame in the gunmfg industry, and NO i ame not afraid of the competition, but i ame afraid of the risk that this industry looses every sence of credability, and letting the marketingguys lie, cheat and make empty promisses

To me, the fair, decent & honest thing to do is to wait and see and then let the product and company stand or fall on it's own merits alone.
The only decent thing to do for the company, is to produce good stuffs, provide the guarantee along the way, without giving pretty unrealistics promisses in forehand
Even though they're sure to be out of my price range and at the wrong end of my career, I for one will be very interested to see the finished rifles.

If they're good or bad, I'll say so but knowing some of the guys involved and the reputation of others, my guess is they'll be helluva good.

quote:

When you buy this optical product from SWAROVSKI OPTIK,
you will own a top-quality instrument for which we grant a worldwide
warranty of 10 years for the rifl e scope and of 2 years for the
reticle illumination from date of purchase in accordance with the
following conditions:
If defects in material and/or workmanship appear, we will take
over material costs for the entire warranty period. We reserve the
right in such instances to repair or replace the instrument or the
defective part at our discretion. During the fi rst fi ve years we will
take over the costs for materials and work.
This guarantee in no way limits the statutory warranty obligations

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
You'd better do your research a bit better sunshine.... their guarantee appears to vary from country to country and product to product which I assume is why their website allows you to select a country and a product to see it's guarantee rather than just have a blanket guarantee statement..... as it happens, I was in a gunshop just yesterday and looked at some of their scopes and guarantees...... and they were lifetime guarantees.
i actually did my research. Their warranty doesn't vary from country to country, but from product to product. And their new products the Z6 has the quotet warranty

However, all that is irrelevent. My point is that your vitriolic attacks on a product you've never seen, made by a company who's finances and set up you know nothing or virtually nothing about makes you appear to be making a very bad taste attempt at nothing more than cheap, amateurish industrial espionage tactics.
I didnt attact their product in anny way. The only thing i question is their IMHO unrealistic guarantee. A guarantee i find almost impossible to back up. I truly dont belive that anybody ever wants to put up the money needed to back this guarantee
If you don't make any products that compete with the John Rigby of London company then I wonder quite why you should attack and criticise them so much?
I don't criticise their product, as i never seen any of their products,and as i previously stated, they may even make damed fine products
Surely the choice of policies and products any company makes is their business and their business alone?
Offering unrealistic guarantee and prommising unobtainaly effects, can actualy damage other products in the industry, by putting them in a wrong prespective. A little like if an African outfitter suddently offered free and unlimited trophyhunt for polarbears in Zambia

I'm sure the vast majority of people would have the common sense to wait until the product is properly launched and then let it stand or fall on it's own merits.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
yurgie,

so, buy one and let us all know in seventy years...

Rich
DRSS