Has anyone shot threw about 10' of milk jugs filled with water with a big boar. If so how did it come out.


Sorry. I worked my hands to make a living.

I shot 45/70 rounds through them. We used twelve of them with 2 inch closed foam between each milk jug. We shot hot loaded 300 grain Noslers, 400 grain Kodiaks and 325 grain Leverevolutions. The 300 and 325s stopped at 7 jugs and the 400 went to 9. Interestingly, the 480 Ruger with a 355 grain LBT at 860 fps went through all the jugs and is still going. Jim

JIm, you are going to start World war III!!!
Peter.

We tried but the boar refused to be loaded into the casing.

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Originally posted by jro45:
Has anyone shot threw about 10' of milk jugs filled with water with a big boar? If so how did it come out.

Do you mean a big bore or a 'Big Boar' as in the LAR Grizzly .50BMG, or T/C .58 caliber muzzleloader?

George

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shot threw

Is that like shot put?

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shot threw


Is that like shot put?

Boy, this is a rough audience

Oh Yep it soytainlee iz!

RIP is the master of jug punching here.

Ask him about his Iron Buffalo for DWJ testing.

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Originally posted by Jim Brainard:
I shot 45/70 rounds through them. We used twelve of them with 2 inch closed foam between each milk jug. We shot hot loaded 300 grain Noslers, 400 grain Kodiaks and 325 grain Leverevolutions. The 300 and 325s stopped at 7 jugs and the 400 went to 9. Interestingly, the 480 Ruger with a 355 grain LBT at 860 fps went through all the jugs and is still going. Jim

I do not doubt this at all.
The higher velocity loads were softs that expand,and they will stop in about half the distance of an FN solid. Water is harder at higher velocity. Resistance proportional to velocity squared.
The LBT was moving slow enough to make the water soft and easy on the bullet, so the bullet did not expand, and it was an FN.
12 milk jugs make about 8 feet of water, and that LBT just barely made it out the other end,and there were no dramatic exploding jugs either, maybe just a little splash from the first jug. Like poking a hole with an icepick instead of a sledgehammer blow to the watermelon.

I can get 12 milk jugs into the IronWaterBuffalo without the boards. Twelve 8" compartments.
Not enough resistance to reliably stop the FN solids, that is why I added the plywood boards to each compartment and switched to water bags to fill the rest of the space.

I can get FN solids into the 10th compartment using a 1/2" plywood board and 7.5" of water to each compartment.

The boards do serve as witness to the straight path until the ninth or tenth compartment where the keyholing shows up and the bullet soon stops.

Round nose solids keyhole in the third or fourth compartment and then exit the sides of the IWB.

Softnose bullets go about half as far as FN solids, if both are of same weight, caliber and velocity.

Three 5-gallon Water Buckets laid end-to-end (14.5" water depth per bucket) will stop most softnose bullets in the third bucket, at velocities of 1600 fps to 2700 fps, leaving a dent in the bottom of the third bucket, splitting the second bucket, and fairly well exploding the first bucket.

From a couple replys it sounds do able. I'm goimg to do it at 50yds away. Thanks!

No,no,no, do it at 6 or 8 feet, the effect is much more dramatic. Here in Southeast Alaska we always have our rainsuits on so it is no big deal. Peter, we were trying to decide which round would work best for brown bear protection. I also tried the same 480 bullet at 1350 fps but it would not track straight. I think the sight distance was not long enough to allow me to make sure it was absolutely straight. Jim

Not water jugs but I know 36 inches of wet phone books doesn't even slow down a 400gr/404J solids @ 2150fps. The 380grNFs @ 2250fps stop in about 24" though.

Try wet sand in a plywood enclosure.........

Saeed set up a stop-box for testing his Walterhogs, using sand and boards in a "sandwich." He has access to lots of sand.

Maybe there should be a AR sandbox competition eh?

Pick a caliber and load which is standardized and see who's box stopper stops boxes best!

I think Saeed's Sand Trap (SST) is an excellent idea for structural-integrity-and-penetration testing of FN solid bullets.

One foot of SST = 5 feet of elephant skull?

Water jugs or buckets are great for expanding bullet tests at usual hunting velocities to be encountered.

The Iron Water Buffalo (IWB) may be manipulated to test softs or solids severely enough, by varying the ratio of wood to water. I love calling it the IWB.

Hmmmm..........so that would look something like this!

My 558 Grain in ISS's .505 at medium velocity penetrates 37" of WET sand.

So assuming Saeed's sand is all wet....

That's about 15 feet of Elephant skull!

How big was Seismosaurus's skull?

O.K., maybe I do not have the calibrations set exactly yet, but the important thing is a consistent medium from shot to shot. SST, 5-gallon Water Buckets/Jugs, and IWB are very consistent from shot to shot, and can test any solid or soft.

Bullets react differently to the media that is encountered. If you want to have some sort of resemblance of what a bullet will do in tissue, wet sand will tell you nothing. Bullets shot into wet sand, will only resemble bullets shot into wet sand.

Below are 200gr .338 bullets fired from a 340 Weatherby. Left hand one from a kudu impact at more than 2800fps, middle unfired and right hand at 3000fps impact from wet sand. The sand bullet had 100% retention and the kudu bullet was 82%. Penetration of the kudu bullet was amazing.



Below are FNs shot into steel drums filled with wet sand. These were done with a 378 Weatherby and also do not mirror reality. Similar speeds into water or tissue, produce a completely different looking bullet.

Gerard,

No one is suggesting that wet sand is comparable to Kudu parts etc. I think you'll agree that wet silica is a MUCH tougher customer than animal parts.

The other minor difference is that you are showing the results of shooting COPPER bullets into the targets. You may dig copper and so may your customers but there is a reason that copper is not preferred where velocity, penetration, and terminal performance are critical in the extreme. If you aren't sure about this you can do a brief analysis of medium bore military projectiles. Nope - no copper there! Some steel, some Tungsten, some ceramic, maybe some D.U. but no copper. Of course, hunting doesn't require that kind of performance (or cost).

I prefer something in the middle ground - brass or bronze alloys. Besides! Copper isn't shiny enough for me!

Geez Gerard! Nobody is saying that wet sand is suitable medium for testing softpoints like the HV's you showed!

Wet sand is definitely good at stopping FN solids, as you have shown.

It is a severe stressor of a supposedly nondeforming solid, and will give some scale of penetration with increasing velocity, and that is also reality based.

The brass/bronze FN solid may be a better-steel-drum-full-of-sand killer, I'd say, though your copper FN's are certainly adequate for elephant skull and body, maybe even for Portuguese Heart Shots.

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wet silica is a MUCH tougher customer than animal parts

This is true and an Abrahams tank is even tougher still. So, if I want to kill a tank, I would use an appropriate projectile and caliber. Similarly, if I am in danger of being overrun by a great number of rabid sand buckets, the appropriate armament is in order. However, shooting any hunting bullet into sand and expecting to make some deduction from the penetration depth or recovered bullet, is meaningless. Many bullets that will shoot an animal end to end do not do well in sand. Comparing brass and copper FN bullets in sand, will result in deeper penetration in sand with brass, but more wound channel volume in tissue with copper.

Comparing weight retention of a variety of bullets in sand, will result in a rude awakening when the same bullets are used on animals, as the weight retention and penetration will be completely different.

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Wet sand is definitely good at stopping FN solids, as you have shown.

If sand is used as a stop medium in order to marvel at the bullets recovered from sand, that is ok. If the purpose is to establish whether a tungsten bullet is harder than a brass bullet, is harder than a copper bullet, is harder than a lead bullet, that is also ok, but we already know that. Just do not try and draw conclusions from it regarding performance in tissue, regardless of whether it is a soft or a solid.

Interesting excercise: The Ultimate 23,000 mph FN.

Technicians inspect copper-topped Deep Impact impactor.
Image Courtesy of Ball Aerospace & Technologies Corp.

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Interesting excercise: The Ultimate 23,000 mph FN.

Gerard - can you make a .700 Nitro version of this!?!?!?