Hello fellow members,

I was thinking a while back of getting a 375 RUM since I was interested in the performance and extra power of the round compared to the 375 H&H and I wanted an excuse to by a new gun... These things all changed when I discovered while goofing around with my ballistic program that with the right bullet and reload I could match Remington's factory rounds. When using the Barnes 270gr TSX out of my 375H&H with a muzzle velocity of 2750fps I get the following data posted bellow...

Name: .375 Cal, Barnes TSX, 270 grn
Ballistic Coeff: 0.503
Bullet Weight: 270
Velocity: 2750
Target Distance: 150
Scope Height: 1.500
Temperature: 70
Altitude: 500

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy
0 yds -1.50 in 2750 fps 4533 fpe
25 yds -0.47 in 2706 fps 4391 fpe
50 yds 0.25 in 2663 fps 4251 fpe
75 yds 0.68 in 2620 fps 4116 fpe
100 yds 0.78 in 2578 fps 3984 fpe
125 yds 0.57 in 2536 fps 3855 fpe
150 yds 0.00 in 2494 fps 3729 fpe
175 yds -0.88 in 2453 fps 3607 fpe
200 yds -2.13 in 2412 fps 3487 fpe
225 yds -3.76 in 2371 fps 3371 fpe
250 yds -5.79 in 2331 fps 3258 fpe
275 yds -8.23 in 2292 fps 3148 fpe
300 yds -11.09 in 2252 fps 3041 fpe

Now if you look at the a Remington's published data using a 300gr Swift bullet you get the following:

375 Remington Ultra Mag
Remington Premier® A-Frame™ 300gr Pointed Soft Point

Velocity (ft/sec)
Muzzle 100 200 300
2760 2505 2263 2035

Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 200 300
5073 4178 3412 2759

I came to the conclusion that If I reloaded the Barnes 270gr TSX in my H&H I could match Remington's commercial offering in 375RUM. Now I know what some of you will tell me and they will be right in saying that one can reload the Barnes TSX in the RUM and get the same advantages but I'm just comparing the commercial offering to my reloads.

Just my thoughts... guess I must be bored out of my mind today

Regards,

Maurice

quote:

Just my thoughts... guess I must be bored out of my mind today rotflmo

That can happen.....aren't there some walleyes nearby that need catching.....I can taste them now!!!!

Whenever the discussion gets to which is better....a big gun or a bigger one my mind races to the critical question.....can I handle the bigger one.....usually the answer is something like this:

Remember the last time you shot the .375 H&H.....and the 404 Jeff.....do you really want more.....and the problem is solved.

Dead is dead....there's no such thing as deader

Im going down that get one of each road

And I think you have to compare apples to apples.
My Ramshot load guide lists the 300gr sierra @
2850 out of the rum and 2592 out of the H&H.

Although I am getting 2670 out of my H&H with RL15 and the 300 TSX!

I guess it's just cartridge preference really. I personally have a addiction to my 375 RUM, and handloading it can crank the velocities up a little off what Remington loads. If you stop and think about it, more powder capacity, more velocity, even if it is a small amount.

What I wanted to demonstrate was energy down range past 200 yard... Most people advocate that they need the RUM for greater down range energy... What I want to show is that reloading the right bullet out of a 375H&H can match the commercial offerings of a RUM...

Just my two cents worth and not here to stur up shit!!!

Maurice

Re-run that data with the correct 270 TSX BC of .326.

I'm pretty sure that the 270gr TSX has a BC of .503 ... I think that Barnes made a typo on their website.

Mo

PRDATOR,

Would you mind sharing your load info, gun, barrel length etc regarding the H&H and the 300gr TSX. Is that a hot load or do you have a fast barrel? Ever try the 270gr TSX? If yes what velocities do you get?

Thanks,

Maurice

For dangerous game at 50 yds and under and for plains game/NA game out to 300 yds the RUM has little if anything to offer over the H&H. If you need to shoot a large animal such as a mountain nyala or LD eland at over 300 yds a slightly flatter trajectory of the RUM may be of some help. I don't think the added weight or recoil is worth the change.

465H&H

Enigma,
My load is 74 gr of RL-15 with the 300gr TSX.( I worked up to this starting at 70 gr YMMV)
Its out of a winchester clasic SS gun with a 24'' barrel. I have had NO prssuer sgins out of this load! it shoot's in side of an inch at 100yds for 4 rounds.
The gun has been cryoed so this may help.

Have not shot any 270's and as good as the 300's shoot I proably wount

I think that 465H&H may have it right but that extra horse power may make me feel better

quote:

Originally posted by Enigma:
I'm pretty sure that the 270gr TSX has a BC of .503 ... I think that Barnes made a typo on their website

No, the .503 number is the "typo" (a nice way of saying it) that they've been advertising for years. They're in the process of actually accurately testing the entire line and finally providing accurate numbers.

If you don't want to believe their new number, I suggest shooting over your chronograph at 200 or 300 yds to see what the real numbers are.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Enigma:
... Most people advocate that they need the RUM for greater down range energy... What I want to show is that reloading the right bullet out of a 375H&H can match the commercial offerings of a RUM.
..[quote]


In actual fact,if you load the right bullet you can easily surpass the performance of the traditionally loaded 378WM.

375hh-270fs-2670...................2033/2478(300yd)
375hh-270tsx-2750...................2252/3041
375hh-300tsx-2470...................2028/2740
375hh-300tbbc-2530................1827/2224
375hh-300aframe-2500............1798/2152
375rum-300aframe2750............2035/2759
378WM-300aframe-2900...........2148/3045

375hh-Gsc265gnHV-2670.........2320/3150
375hh-Gsc265gnHV-2900.........2538/3791e(300yd)
(bc.532)the 375hh has really come of age with these advanced bullets.
I would also consider .416-330HV(bc.545)@2700 for 2350/4050@300yd.....that is thunderous performance.

Logical step up is 416 RemiMag.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
.....the RUM has little if anything to offer over the H&H. .....

465H&H

Well, the RUM has NO belt, which in my mind that belt has always been a sore spot. While at the same time it doesn't have the history of the venerable H&H. Either way you go, a .375 caliber cartridge of that class is a great all around big bore.

I tend to muddy the waters even more by trying to figure out what the gain would be with extra heavy bullets, like the 350 and 380 grain Rhinos. I can get 2310fps out of my 24" barreled Model 70 in .375 H&H with the 350 grain Rhino. I always wonder if I had a .375 Weatherby or something else with more case capacity that I wouldn't have something that could also equal, or come close, to what 416's can do.

I'm confused about all of this. Is this about trying to make one cartridge into something it's not? Yeah we can make a 30-06 into a .300 Win Mag, but it's stressful.
Take the 375RUM for what it is, a beltless cartridge with enough powder capacity to put it over the threshold of what the .375 H&H delivers. No animal's ever complained about being too dead from extra horsepower and velocity.

Theres nothing to be confused about, its actually very simple and smart.

-Smaller case with better design bullet = superior downrange performance.


375hh-gsc265HV@2900(max)......2538/3791(300yd)
375Rum300aframe@2750(max)...2035/2750
378WM300aframe@2900(max)....2148/3045

I dont see that as making the 375hh into something it isnt. To the contrary, I see it as a way of releasing the full potential of the 375hh to the point that you can now have a rig that is lighter,better performing & less recoiling than your conventionally loaded supermagnum.
I dont see a problem with that concept at all.

-Stressful..? I dont think so. Operating pressures are no higher than the other two larger rounds.In fact its the other way around. you can reduce 265HV loads and still surpass the down range figures of the conventionally max.loaded super magnums.

But if you feel that a heavier gun, conventional bullet,up to 40% more powder & 50% more recoil resulting in inferior down range performance, is better for you, then by all means,go right ahead and use it.

Hello fellow AR members,

I wish to say that I never wanted to start a flame war and hope this thread does not degenerate into a war between the H&H Vs RUM Vs Weatherby etc. The RUM is in a class by its own so is the RUM and the likes... I only wanted to demonstrate that with a very well constructed bullet designed with a high B.C. the H&H could rival (only downrange, not at the muzzle) with a commercial reloading with bullets of lower B.C... Of course if you load them both with the same bullet, the RUM will win every time! I was just comparing a reload, to a commercial offering. Lets not forget that most people who buy these calibers do not reload! How many hunter do you know that reload? I bet you that 9 out of 10 hunters in Canada do not reload!

I was only trying to point out that my 375 H&H with a bullet like the TSX with a high B.C. could rival the energy and trajectory of a RUM past 200 yards. Lets not forget that most people who buy that caliber instead of the H&H do it because the guy behind the counter told them of the better downrange energy and flatter trajectory compared to the venerable H&H.

If you compare apples to apples, (H&H vs RUM with commercial ammo) the picture is clear, the RUM wins hands down in FPE and velocity both at the muzzle and downrange. If you compare apples to oranges, (270gr reloaded TSX in H&H vs Remington Safari with Swift A-Frames RUM) the RUM still has greater energy at the muzzle but is equal at 200yrds and beyond with the old Ouch and Ouch.

This thread was just intended to be an observation I made, not to start a debate and war on which one is better since everyone knows it's the Holland and Holland.

Just joking, they are both great rounds.

So lets spend more times shooting, and less time arguing guys and gals.


Cheers,

Maurice

There is no war here Enigma,its actually great fun and your info is helpful, as much as my info will be helpful to others that want or need greater long range bigbore performance from their std H&H. Its surprising the range of versatility and performance, a well designed bullet can offer a hunter.

Just for interest sake;
375hh........265HV@2900/4950e.....100yd:4540....300yd:3790
375rum300aframe@2750/5073e.....100yd:4178....300yd:2759
378wm300aframe.@2900/5700e.....100yd:4750.....300yd:3045

as we can see the 378wm has the edge at the beginning.just after 100yds it begins to lagg behind. I will gladly sacrafice the extra muzzle energy of the 378wm to avoid its recoil,and take up the great downrange advantage of the much more sedate and efficient 375-265HV,with almost 5000ME,it aint nothing to sneeze at to begin with.If someone feels they need more strikeforce than that for something nasty at close range, it really is time to go to a bigger bore/heavier pill.


Jon A,(below)

no, I have not done at distance chrono measures.

Woodjack, have you shot any of those loads over a chronograph at distance? Just curious, thanks.