Last weekend, I started working up a load for 300 gr FMJ's for the 1st time. I am sighted in for a mild (2400 fps or so) 270 gr load. I rested the Ruger #1 on sandbags, did not hold the fore-end. The 300's were shooting high and to the right (about 6" each way). Muzzle rise did not seem significant. That's way more spread between loads than I expected. Later, thinking about it, it occurred to me that the barrel rise on recoil is responsible since I am not holding on to the fore-end. Sure, next time at the range I'll try holding the fore-end, resting wrist on the bags, but wanted to ask your experience: Do the big bores do better with a traditional grip on the fore-end, as compared with the small bore style of resting on sandbags? Bob

I ALWAYS hold the fore-end of my hunting and varmint rifles and rest the back of my forward hand on the bag (simulating a field rest). That is how they were meant to be shot in the field, so shooting them any other way at the bench does not give a true measure of performance.

George

[ 02-06-2003, 01:29: Message edited by: GeorgeS ]

I use standard benchrest techniques for testing and sighting in, then do as GeorgeS does, then make final adjustments if necessary....You will normally shoot with your hand on the forend when hunting or I do .

I am with Ray on this... benchrest techinque, and then, when done, arm on the forearm... but.... this doesn't work for sissy me and anything bigger than a 416 rem...
BTW, even if the gun has never hit you, when you let it fly at you, from the sandbags, without holding the forearm, it WILL travel back further!!!

jeffe

Bob,

I like to divide the load work-up into three parts with the heavy kickers.

In the first part I use a repeatable position from the bench; meaning that each shot can be let off the same, and I pay attention to group size or whatever load development measure you use.

Once I have settled on a load I shoot from as close to a rested field bench postion as I can get to set sights. I load the magazine, and feed from it.

Finally I make the final sight adjustment from a field rest, usually checking the final sight adjustment with the shooting sling (or without depending on the rifle) with elbows resting on the bench and the rifle held normally. Again I use the magazine.

jim dodd

No matter whether it is a light or heavy recoiling gun, I hold the forearm and hold the rifle tight to my shoulder. I find this improves my shooting.

If you have a heavy-kicker try one of the bags filled with sand....shaped like an X.....bout the front of stock in one of the S's and the pressure from the others will squeeze it into place....I think one of the brand names is "Bull Bag" or something like that...works great to cut recoil when working of loads but you point of impact will change when you quit using it but it's no big deal to resight in once you have a load you like.

I find for heavy kickers the standing bench technique works for best for me. Basically this is a leather buckwheat filled bag sitting on the bonnet of my landcruiser ute. I hold the forearm and if it's a real bad kicker I drape one of those cheap gun bags over my shoulder.

When shooting big bores from the bench I try to get in the most up-right posture I can with the butt into the front of my shoulder. This generally requires some bags for my elbows which is good because it keeps them from getting beat up too. By getting the butt into a "normal" position, you keep it from hitting you across the collar bone, which is painful, and you can absorb more of the recoil by rocking with the rifle.

I have got to start putting that left paw under the fore-end. I think that it will improve my field shooting. Ku-dude

Just a word of advice if you're shooting a CZ550.
After getting my rifle (416 Rigby)I was anxious to shoot it, and loaded up some mild loads right out of a manual.I shot these standing just to see what the recoil was like.
After loading up some stouter rounds, I was back at the bench using my cheap orange Hoppes rest. I put the rifle on the bag, snuggled in and let a shot go.
The first thing through my mind was wow, what recoil. The second thing was what the hell is that orange thing flying over my head?
The front swivel ( don't know why they didn't use a barrel band) had caught the front edge of the bag and had flipped it over my head.
The second shot I learned to hold on to the forearm with a FIRM grip.
Hope this helps.

Thanks for the advice. One aspect didn't get much attention though, which was my main question. The spread between my old familiar 270 gr and the 300's. I'm doing fine handling the recoil of the gun with a PAST pad, but I would sure like the 375 to group all it's loads to the same point of impact like Jack O'Conner promised! How bout' it, guys?

I think you'll find that if you shoot both loads with EXACTLY the same technique that the spread will decrease. I'll chime in with the others and recommend a healthy grip on the front of the stock.

Good points all on being more upright to roll with the recoil and not to take it off the collarbone. Even more to hold on to the forearm such that a firm grip will absorb some of the recoil and keep the muzzle jump to a minimum as stated above.

Lastly, and you guys will have to take a leap of faith with me here, I worked up some loads last summer in a Savage ML-10II (a smokeless powder muzzleloader) where I was propelling 300 to 340g bullets to over 2500fps which I say qualifies as a big bore, and the only way I got through it with such a light weight muzzleloader was to use a lead shot bag as a recoil reducer. I would mount the ML on the bench and then I had a game bird strap with all tongs attached around the lead shot bag. The shot bag weighed about 25 pounds I believe. Right before each shot I would place the ML a bit forward of where I ultimately wanted it relative to the bench, engage the strap with the rear of the ML, push the lead shot bag forward until it was definitely resisting the ML, and then pull the ML back until it went on sight. With the lead shot bag under tension recoil was reduced drastically compared to free recoil shooting. It had both sheer mass as well as the friction between the bag and the cement to reduce recoil.

There are devices you can buy that are much more expensive but this was surprisingly successful and the cost was that of a strap and one bag of lead shot.

As for the ML, the bolt handle is too far backward and my index finger's knuckle took quite the pounding during load development.

I hope that helps.

Reed

P.S. I held on to the front of that ML too. Also, I have a 13# 338/416 Rigby that packs a wallup. I would never dream of firing that off the bench without a good grip on the forearm...my 404 Jeffery too.

I haven't seen anyone make reference to placing your left hand (non-trigger hand) over top of the scope. Rest the foreend on the sand bags, pull the stock tight into your shoulder with the grip or trigger hand, and place your left hand on top of the scope, holding it down on the sand bags.
I've seen this method used quite successfully on the real heavy recoiling guns. I have tried it myself and found it quite effective.
Any pros and cons others have noticed?

Bill