Pistol powder in a big bore

15 September 2007, 11:38

jens poulsen

quote:
Originally posted by Macifej:
Is that a Ten bore rifle that shoots a solid or a glorified Ten Bore shotgun with a dab of Blue Dot in the can? Besides, the powder is all the same price anyway - what's the point?. This idea is like trying to invent a square wheel!

Its a .775 doueblerifle made by JOHN RIGBY & Co!!.
The pointe of using Blue Dot is that the same ballisticts( 900 grain @ 1550 Ft/sec)can be made with less recoil of the black powder.
Please read the articel...very informative

15 September 2007, 11:45

Macifej

How might I read something published 12 years ago? I don't have a personal library of that stuff.

Hey what finally happened with the old Steyr Bolt Gun?

15 September 2007, 12:00

jens poulsen

quote:
Originally posted by Macifej:
How might I read something published 12 years ago? I don't have a personal library of that stuff.

Hey what finally happened with the old Steyr Bolt Gun?

I`LL keep the steyr as I originally had in mind for a "custom project later".

If you enter www.abebooks.com there should be plenty of oppotunities to find old gunbooks such as Gun Digest etc.
A gunlibray is very usefull...almost mandatory

15 September 2007, 19:12

jeffeosso

i use pistol powder for fireforming
some guys use it with cast bullets

if you do, you must use a filler

16 September 2007, 02:53

p dog shooter

I use some Herco for fireforming my 416 taylor brass. Also for some fun shooting 300 gr hard cast loads out of a 25 inch barrel they just pop at about 1000 fps. They shot great and would kill a lot of stuff if one wanted too.

18 September 2007, 00:52

CMcDermott

The proper powder to use for a cartridge depends on the expansion ratio (volume of cartridge versus the bore size i.e. how much the total volume behind the bullet changes as the bullet goes down the barrel) and on the maximum pressure desired for the load. Pistol cartridges have a small volume that rapidly gets bigger as they typically have short straight sided cases and light bullets that can be accelerated quickly; so they need a fairly fast burning powder to build pressure quickly. Most rifle cartridges have MUCH more case volume, a smaller bore size yet heavier bullets that don't accelerate as fast so must use a slower burning powder to limit peak pressure. Note that a 10 bore rifle cartridge looks like a scaled up pistol cartridge, straight sided with a fairly light for caliber bullet. Yes, even a 900 grain bullet is very light for a 10 bore, scale up the 300 grain .375" bullet to .775" and you get a 2400+ grain bullet. Along with the burning rate you need to consider the desired pressure levels, some powders are designed such that they need high pressures in order to burn properly and completely, others are designed to burn at lower pressures and get erratic at higher pressure levels.

18 September 2007, 17:53

Aglifter

Thanks, I thought there was a reason for it, I just wondered what it was...

20 September 2007, 08:47

keithv35

quote:
Posted by CMcDermott
The proper powder to use for a cartridge depends on the expansion ratio (volume of cartridge versus the bore size i.e. how much the total volume behind the bullet changes as the bullet goes down the barrel) and on the maximum pressure desired for the load. Pistol cartridges have a small volume that rapidly gets bigger as they typically have short straight sided cases and light bullets that can be accelerated quickly; so they need a fairly fast burning powder to build pressure quickly. Most rifle cartridges have MUCH more case volume, a smaller bore size yet heavier bullets that don't accelerate as fast so must use a slower burning powder to limit peak pressure. Note that a 10 bore rifle cartridge looks like a scaled up pistol cartridge, straight sided with a fairly light for caliber bullet. Yes, even a 900 grain bullet is very light for a 10 bore, scale up the 300 grain .375" bullet to .775" and you get a 2400+ grain bullet. Along with the burning rate you need to consider the desired pressure levels, some powders are designed such that they need high pressures in order to burn properly and completely, others are designed to burn at lower pressures and get erratic at higher pressure levels.

Now that's got to be one of the most intelligent responses I've ever read on here. Kinda like using the big crayons to draw the big picture here for me.

Thanks,
Keith

20 September 2007, 10:22

Robgunbuilder

Basically if all you want is low velocities, using a pistol powder and a filler will work. Keep increasing the powder charge and you will quickly reach a point where very small increases in powder results in big and unhealthy changes in pressures.Leave out the filler and you risk a blow-up. Peak pressures with heavy bullets and a fast burning powder could be extremely high and even dangerous. With heavy bullets you want a slow burning powder to keep the pressures in the realm of sanity.-Rob

20 September 2007, 10:24

bigdoggy700

I know that Ken Owen uses between 112 and 115 grains of blue dot to load his 4 bore shells. He has been using it for several years now and it works well in his 4 bores.

20 September 2007, 11:25

vapodog

quote:
Originally posted by keithv35:
quote:
Posted by CMcDermott
The proper powder to use for a cartridge depends on the expansion ratio (volume of cartridge versus the bore size i.e. how much the total volume behind the bullet changes as the bullet goes down the barrel) and on the maximum pressure desired for the load. Pistol cartridges have a small volume that rapidly gets bigger as they typically have short straight sided cases and light bullets that can be accelerated quickly; so they need a fairly fast burning powder to build pressure quickly. Most rifle cartridges have MUCH more case volume, a smaller bore size yet heavier bullets that don't accelerate as fast so must use a slower burning powder to limit peak pressure. Note that a 10 bore rifle cartridge looks like a scaled up pistol cartridge, straight sided with a fairly light for caliber bullet. Yes, even a 900 grain bullet is very light for a 10 bore, scale up the 300 grain .375" bullet to .775" and you get a 2400+ grain bullet. Along with the burning rate you need to consider the desired pressure levels, some powders are designed such that they need high pressures in order to burn properly and completely, others are designed to burn at lower pressures and get erratic at higher pressure levels.

Now that's got to be one of the most intelligent responses I've ever read on here. Kinda like using the big crayons to draw the big picture here for me.

Thanks,
Keith

I agree....it's an excellent post.

24 September 2007, 07:44

The Maz

It depends more on case volume than on action strength. Large volume cases require a slow burning powder to be able to achieve a long pressure curve. This provides accelerating force all the way to the muzzle.

Pistol powders burn much faster, and an amount capable of achieving good velocities will result in a huge breach pressure that will shatter any steel gun.

24 September 2007, 07:55

Macifej

quote:
It depends more on case volume than on action strength. Large volume cases require a slow burning powder to be able to achieve a long pressure curve. This provides accelerating force all the way to the muzzle.

Pistol powders burn much faster, and an amount capable of achieving good velocities will result in a huge breach pressure that will shatter any steel gun.

I believe you are correct! Sounds similar to what I said at the beginning of the post......but the debate goes on and on and on.....I love this forum!

24 September 2007, 08:11

Grandpasez

Depends the big bore. Our 12ga FH
experiments we found pistol/fast rifle
powders that work fine, and they still are
much slower than shotgun powders.Like
50 gr of blue dot with 600 gr 12ga slug in
plastic case extraction is hard, but 4227
you can use twice as much, getting much
longer and larger pressure curve without
a high peak pressure, giving a lot more velocity.Ed

26 September 2007, 00:37

Paul H

I've used ~30 grs of Unique and no filler under a 470 gr cast bullet in my 500 Jeffrey for ~1100 fps. Can't beat it for a fun load.

For full power loads, you need a powder with a appropriate pressure/time curve for the chambering and bullet.

Pistol powders aren't faster due to the short barrel, rather due to the expansion ratio of the case to the bore.