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After searching the AR database and looking at the reloading page, I'm coming to the conclusion that 95.0gr of IMR4350 with 400gr rounds (NF softs and A-Frames) should be a safe place to start. These will be used in a CZ 550 if that makes a difference. Please confirm if I'm good to go. | ||
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Swift book- .416 Rigby 400gr. A-Frame IMR4350 80.9 grs. 2261 fps starting load, 87.0 grs. 2359 fps MAX. so no, you're not good to go. Scott | |||
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For me, 93.0 gr of H4350 with a 400 TSX gave a bit over 2400 FPS. Not completely identical powders, or bullet, but close. I would start lower than that amount of powder. The solids took 1.5 grains less to match velocity. Admittedly, the pressure specs on the Rigby are low, but that is why you use such a huge case. I basically started at 85 grains and worked up until I hit 2400 FPS with cloverleaf groups at 100 yards, so I called it good to go. I know there are some who advocate running up the velocity on the Rigby, but if you are in to that, get a .416 WBY and use something designed for that pressure/velocity. | |||
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98 of AR2209 (H4350) is mild in my CZ 550 .416 Rigby with twice fired Hornady Brass and 400 grn Hornady RNSP Interlocks. Start at 95 and see how you go. I have recently tried 106 grns of AR2213sc (H4831sc) with primers starting to flatten nicely and groups shrinking. AR2213sc gives almost 100% load density so I will be trying 108 grns next. My rifle is bog stock without muzzle breaks etc., and I find 2209 (H4350) kicks more than 2213sc (H4831SC). | |||
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I used 100grs of RL22 in Mast(BeLL) cases behind a Woodleigh solid. Was totally accurate in My CZ550 416 Rigby and the last Elephant I shot didn't really complain as I'm looking at his tusks as I write this. That is actually the starting load with RL22 in Noslers Manual. In the Hodgen manual they give 95 grains. The Barnes manual calls for 99 grains. Hornady's manual doesn't even list Rl22, so I really have no idea where a person is supposed to look for loads. I usually use Nosler Partitions so I usually use their book and try to keep it fairly current. I've been curious about the differences in manuals for many years. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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Yes, 106 grns AR2213 load with 400 grain bullets should be using the case capacity. I would guess that you are getting around 2600+ fps (6000+ ftlbs). It should be a relatively safe load for the huge Rigby case but flattening primers would lead me to back off rather than go to 108. Because of the terminal effects of monolithic bullets, I shoot 350 grainers. 102.5 grains of Rel17 produces 2850 +/-50 fps and cool primers in our CZ Rigbys (currently we have two). Rel17 is approximately on the slowness scale rank with IMR 4350 and H4350. Anything slower and I run out of capacity with 350 grain copper bullets.
The books on 416 Rigby are almost irrelevant for modern CZ550 actions. The actions and cases are certainly good for 60k psi loads, and will handle quite a bit more should heat and whatnot call for it. Basically, that means that the Rigby can be safely loaded to 6000+ ft lb levels. For better comparison I would look at loads for the 416 Weatherby and drop about three grains of powder because of the slightly different case. Velocities should average within about 25 fps of the Weatherby loads. The 416 Rigby has been one of the most underloaded cartridges in history, which is fine if that is what a shooter wants, but it does not do justice to the capacity. If one is going to shoot 100+ grains of powder, they might as well get some significantly increased ballistics. Basically, the Rigbys and Weatherbys are 'super cartridges' in the 40 cal range and I would rate them over the Lott when loaded to appropriate levels for the capacities. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Here is my mates Data in an identical rifle. AR2213SC (AKA Hodgdon H4831sc) 106Grains behind a 410 grain Bertram SP 2460fps AR2213SC 104 Grains behind a 410grain Woodleigh 410 Solid 2480fps AR2209 (AKA Hodgdon H414/H4350) 98 Grains behind 410 Bertram SP 2450fps AR2209 90Grains behind 450Grain Woodleigh RNSP 2250fps I'll have to go and chrono mine one day. | |||
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those velocity figures are quite low are would not suggest anything like 'flattening primers'. Of course, rifle barrels are different, and powder lots are different. But a load that is flattening primers with slow powder and 400 grain bullets ought to be getting more than 2600fps. Something isn't adding up so check out your rifles and loads carefully (oversized chamber in mate's rifle?, tight bore/chamber/throat in your own?, powder lots, etc.). +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Hi 7MMNut, In my Dakota 76 based rifle, I use 96.0gn behind the 410gn Woodleigh, with FED215 primers and Norma cases. I get 2460fps or there abouts, It is only a grain or so below max in my rifle, so I would advise you to start at around 92.0gn to be safe. You can probably work up to 95.0gn or 96.0gn, but I wouldn't start there. | |||
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And greetings to 338User (338WM is one of my alltime favorite calibres. Wonderful plains game gun with just enough punch for emergency use on non-retreating lion. Or that unexpected buffalo, where legal.) The question that needs asking is: what is a 'max' in a 416Rigby? What happens in your rifle at 98 grains "4350" or higher? (These are real questions, not rhetoric. There are some unique circumstances surrounding the Rigby. Designs were set for cordite instability, potential double rifles, and a long history of custom rebuilds.) Is max for 416Rigby determined by books and history, kinds of double rifles that may be regulated at certain levels, or firearm safety, accuracy, and efficiency? Note that 416 Rigby and 416 Weatherby are within 3% powder capacities, while the 416Remington and 416 Ruger, often quoted as ballistically equal to the Rigby, are 20-25% smaller capacity designs. Today, the majority of Rigby shooters appear to be using the relatively large, strong, CZ550 action, or functional equivalents. In such rifles I am happy to consider loads of 60000 psi as a 'hunting max'. That works out to 2600fps with 400 grainers. If cases easily slip out of a normal chamber, primers are normal, cases do not grow extraordinarily, and primer pockets remain tight, all on a hot day, then I would consider the loads within the safety ballpark. When I do this with CZ550's I find that the loads look more like 416 Weatherby than anything else. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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As stated It wasn't my rifle. It was my mates. I have no idea what his primers looked like. I will definantly have to chrono my loads. | |||
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The accuracy load in my CZ550 in 416 Rigby is Hornady brass, F215m primers, 100gr of RL22 with 400gr TSX's. This shoots under 1" at 100yds and is running 2360fps. This rifle was rebarreled and chambered by Wayne at AHR. It also shoots Hornady DGX pretty well with 101gr of h4831sc. | |||
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Good thread. Do you guys consider the Ruger RSM action to be equivalent to the CZ action when it comes to trying these loads? Thanks. | |||
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I just checked several reloading sources I have online and the max for IMR4350 with most bullets was between 90gr and 92gr for 400gr bullets. | |||
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Ed, I found the same thing and my Swift Reloading Manual (a few years old now) says the same thing as Scott's. I suspect everyone posting here is an accomplished reloder so practices the following "rules" but it is worth repeating it for anyone that reads this thread and is just starting out. 1. Have at least one if not more Reloading manuals; 2. Don't get distracted while reloading - (TV, the dog, etc.); 3. Always start at the starting load; 4. If you have found a load that works and is safe, it is only so for that specific combination of components; 5. If you change any component or the firearm in which the cartridge is to be used, you should start at #3 above; 6. Be safe and be smart - this is supposed to be fun - no need to lose an eye, limb or life NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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Thanks for all of the replies gents. I have a bigger issue now then starting powder weight. Please see my new thread in the "Reloading" section by clicking here: http://forums.accuratereloadin...131050071#9131050071 | |||
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Thank you, Doc. It is good to always have these in mind. However, while #1 applies for starting loads with the Rigby, I do not consider the manuals or SAAMI to be representative for the real 416 Rigby. As mentioned above, they aim at a 1911 standard rather than the actual capacity in strong bolt action rifles. Some may disagree with this position, of course. The situation is similar to some loads in other calibre or for pistols that are sometimes labled "+P" (higher pressure) in manuals, where there is a known discrepency in the market amongst various firearms. In a CZ550 action, there is no reason to limit the Rigby to the standards of 1911 or a 416Remington. Normal pressure loads (up to 60 k psi) produce 150-200 fps over most manuals. My son and I chose the Rigby over the Remington because of the extra capacity and extra ballistics, a responsible option for handloaders. And lest someone misread this-- I am only waving the 'manual standards' for the 416 Rigby, not for any other calibre, and only for the max loads. A person must be careful about MINIMUM loads, too, and a case the size of the Rigby should NEVER be loaded below a book minimum. There is a phenomenon of 'detonation'/'explosion' that can blow up a rifle when slow powders are mixed in large cases far below capacity. I have not heard of examples with the Rigby, but slow powders and empty space are a very dangerous recipe. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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7MMNut - see my response in the Reloading section 416 Tanzan - agree with everything you have written there NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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FWIW...Barnes #3 manual for Barnes bullet... the XLC is gone from the scene. 400gr XFB, 26" bbl... H4350 93gr/2486fs - 98gr/2599fs 400gr XLC, 26" bbl, MODERN BOLT RIFLE ONLY IMR4350 93gr/2496fs - 98gr/2624fs No pressure numbers given. Barnes has onlin data for their available bullets. Hodgdons had online data with pressures and Alliant powder has online data. RL-17 might be a good one now as is seems to give higher velo's at similar or lower pressures the any of the 4350 powders... QL gives slightly higher velos with less powder with RL-17(95gr/2625fs/62681psi) with the listed 400 gr bullets, 26" bbl...running ~62,000 plus/minus 2000 psi as the top end...QL list ~47kpsi for the Rigby case. Follow and keep CCMDoc's credo in mind as ALL the given data depends on the individual rifle, components, COAL, barometric conditions etc., it was developed with/in. Luck | |||
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Fixed my problem with the reloading, or I should say Todd Williams fixed it for me. I decided to run 3 groups of 3 shots each at 92, 94 and 96 grains of IMR 4350. | |||
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I never used either of the 4350 powders in my .416 Rigby. I liked 100 grains of H4831 and original Kynoch or Barnes original bullets, later used Woodleigh before I sold the rifle. Iused 105 grains on occasion, but as Jack O'Connor said of that load, "the recoil becomes rather formidable!" I made cases by turning the belts off of .460 Weaq. or .378 Wea and reamed the necks. This was back in the day when most people hadn't seen a .416 Rigby. I don't have an velocity records left, but as I recall they were about 2400 and 2600 fps, respectively. Great cartridge | |||
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Hi 416Tanzan, I went up to 98.0gn of AR2209 (H4350) in my testing. It was OK, At that load I got some signs of case head expansion around 0.0002" which is marginal. In some of my 338WM loads I have accepted 0.0005' case head expansion, but I generally try to keep below 0.0002" to 0.0003" case head expansion, as it gives better case life. At 98.0gn the velocity was just around 2550fps. I decided not to go any further. Maximum is a bit subjective, it depends what you are prepared to accept. In this case it is Max in my rifle because it is the highest load I have tested with the 410gn bullet. The pressure may be well below 60,000 PSI, but I have no means to measure pressure, other than indicated by case head expansion. However the main reason for dropping the load to 96.0gn was that the recommended impact velocity of the Woodleigh bullet is 2400fps. I will be at or below that velocity after the bullet has travelled about 30m. If I had been using the 400gn SWIFT A Frame, or Barnes TSX, I may have gone further. For info, in my rifle, those two bullets achieve the same velocity as the 410gn Woodleigh (ie 2460fps), and shoot to the same POI at 100 yards with 95.0gn of AR2209 (H4350). I also worked up to 95.0gn AR2209 (H4350) with the 450gn Woodleigh, and that gives me just on 2400fps. I stopped there for the same reason. | |||
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I went out to chrono those 106 grain AR2213sc loads. Here are the primers. I hope you can see them. .. and here is the Chrono. No velocitys were recorded. Doah. | |||
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338-- Excellent data and discussion. I think that I would join you if using the Woodleighs. I've been using TSXs, and will probably shift over to CEB raptors. Code4-- The picutres are helpful, but need a little help in reading. The primers look like they have ample shoulder remaining, not flat at all. I can't tell if there was cratering from the picture. If not, then they look very nice. And on the second picture: "I'm sorry for your loss." - +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Whoops!! | |||
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That's my 2nd in 15 years. Expansion was a bit much, I like them to explode inside the target | |||
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Well, back to the original question. I have gone back and looked at my folder for my CZ550 in 416 Rigby. My favorite loads are as follows: 95 grains IMR 4350 Hornady 400 gr. SP 95 grains IMR 4350 Woodleigh 410 gr. SP I worked up loads and the above groups were significantly better than the 92/93 grain loads. So, I am not sure 95 grains is a safe place to start, but I don't believe it is an unsafe load, at least not in my rifle. For the GS Custom 380 gr. FN's I used 78 grains IMR 4064. Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Well I ran these rounds today at the range. 96gr showed no signs of a pressure problem whatsoever. Well if you don't count the thumping on my shoulder. I also ran some H4831 rounds. As much as I love IMR4350, have several calibers for which this powder has worked very well, the H4831 was a bit more accurate. I'm no expert but I'm noticing that my rifles tend to be most accurate using powder weights that result in a full or at least nearly full cartridge. 105gr of H4831 fits in this category. And after researching threads here on AR, it seems this has been a very popular combination for the .416 Rigby. | |||
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Sounds like an enjoyable day at the range. Your statement is on target: "I'm no expert but I'm noticing that my rifles tend to be most accurate using powder weights that result in a full or at least nearly full cartridge. 105gr of H4831 fits in this category." Yes, 105 grains of 4831 fills the cartridge. However, it does not reach the pressure capacity of the cartridge and is actually too slow for optimum maximum loads. For optimum maximums a powder in the range of 4350/Rel17 is better. H4831 starts to shine when a person wants to take 50-200 fps off of a maximum load and still fill the cartridge. On the other hand, if the load is being slowed down for more comfortable recoil, than a faster powder will work even better. Reducing 10 grains of a substance that leaves the barrel at 5000 fps (propellant gas) reduces unnecessary felt momentum a tad. A more noticeable reduction in ballpark of 10% can be had by switching to 350 grain monometal bullets. They will equal the killing power and penetration of the 400 grain lead bullets and have flatter trajectories. Incidentally, I do not recommend the use of 400 grain monometal solids in the CZ Rigbys because of bullet length and less inherent stability inside the target in a 16.5" twist barrel. (A long, mushrooming bullet does fine in terminals, the concern is only with solids.) +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I would not be concerned about which powder I used in a 415 Rigby up to a point..95 grs. of IMR 4831 is a doable load...The 416 Rigby is a 416 Wby without a belt, so it will take a lot of powder and you can get a lot of velocity out of one... Find yourself the most accurate load that gives you 2300 to 2400 FPS, the rest is folly... Keep in mind that you can drive a 400 gr. bullet to as much as 2800 FPS or more some tell me in a 416 Rigby, but I will guarentee you those velocities are counter productive on buffalo, hippo and elephant..2300 to 2400 FPS is ideal for DG.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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My experience with four different .416 Rigby's with twist rates of 12, 14, and 16.5 has been that various 400gr bullets can be be driven to around 2650fps with the similar 4350 and 4831 types. Primers started to flatten beyond that. A good load in a Rem 30S with a 1-14 Shilen used the Swift A-frame pushed by 98 grs of IMR4350, Fed cases and primers. M.O.A. for three shots, velocity average 2550fps. 100grs of 4350 with the Hornaday 400gr sp went to average 2590 but the bolt was slightly sticky and the group not as tight. Also among my notes using 4350 are loads with older Barnes X's, both 325 gr and 350. With the 325 I loaded up to 107.5 gr 4350 and recorded three shots within 10 fps of each other averaging 2890fps and placing within an inch of each other. I noted I felt this a very hot load. The 350 gr X's hit around 2720 behind 104gr 4350, very accurate but starting to show some primer flattening. I also have worked with the 340 Woodleigh and 4350. I loaded up to 105.5 IMR4350 which gave me a three shot average of 2810fps, a large group and noted "TOO HOT! The same bullet with 100grs averaged very consistent velocities around 2660, a near 1" group and a note about it being a pleasant load to use. In the Rigby I have also used R-19 and 22, H414, Norma 204, H4350 and the similar 4831 types. AA3100 (like IMR4831) with the Barnes 350 TX worked very well in both a Vz24 Mauser with Shilen 1 in 14 barrel and a Cz 550 hogback that had been magna-ported. Overall I have concluded That the 416 Rigby is not fussy about powder but works best with 4831. I hope reader you know better then to use my loads in your rifle until backing off some grains and carefully working up. Ditto: All of Tanzan's notes | |||
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Just got my 416 RUM (Ultracat) built on a standard R700 long action with 26" barrel. It used to be a 7 mm Rem Mag. This 416 cat has 120 grs of H2O case capacity, a bit less than the Rigby, but I consider this standard long-action gun now essentially "Rigbyized". I've been out once and had it up to 2550 fps with 400 gr. TSX bullets using MRP and Ramshot Hunter - absolutely no pressure signs. MRP is too slow to bring it up to good working PSI's, although I think MRP will work well with 450 gr. WLs. I anticipate at least 2650 fps with 400 gr. bullets and ~2850 fps with 350 TTSX bullets, but I'll likely need to use Re15 or Re17. With Ramshot Hunter I've taken the 350 TTSXs to 2750 fps without the slightest pressure signs. Why have a gun with this case capacity and not load it to its safe capabilities? If you like 400 grainers at 2400 fps get a 416 Rem Mag. Regards, AIU | |||
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Ackley IU: Welcome to real-world cartridge choice. It sounds like a great rifle. If someone wants 'book Rigby' stats, then let them get a nifty little 416 Ruger, an absolutely great gun. But if someone wants it plains-game flat, then full-throttle 'Rigby' (120+ grain capacity) is the recipe. As to your expectations, I would start to go easy after 2800 fps and the 350 grain TTSX. With the Rigby I use 2800 fps in 'normal' temps and 2850+ fps in hot, noonday african sun, and no pressure signs at all. R17 is my choice fuel. If you want to go 'leaded' with 400 and 450 grain bullets, that's your choice. I'm for all-copper and flat. Both will fully penetrate. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I like the 416 Rigby as a one gun tool for both Buffalo and plains game. I have yet to take mine to Africa, but this is the plan. A good 400gn bullet at near 2500fps, (or in my case the 450gn Woodleigh at 2400fps), for the big stuff, and a 300gn Barnes TSX at 2920fps for plains game. I have so far only shot a few pigs with 400gn Woodleighs and 300gn Barnes, and a couple of wild dogs with the 300gn Barnes. On that size game you don't recover any bullets from this outfit, no matter what angle you shoot them from. The results have been spectacular so far. I have set mine up with two scopes in Smithson QD mounts, so I can swap scopes and ammo in less than a minute, depending on what pops up on a hunt. | |||
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When in doubt, SHOOT YOUR CHRONOGRAPH It can't lie anymore. Just Go Hunting 416 Rigbys Rule Tetonka DRSS | |||
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338User: You'll have no practical problems with the above loads, but you might reconsider the 300 TSX. The new 350 TTSX has such a better BC so that it equals or outperforms the trajectory of 300TSX plus provides more momentum and penetration. It's not a big deal, but if I had my plains game bullet up the spout and came upon a buffalo unexpectedly, I would prefer the 350 TTSX to the 300 TSX. Here are the ballistics: 300 TSX, 2920fps, 2" sight-in at 100 yards at 300 yards --7.5" down, 2095 fps, 2925 ftlbs at 400 yards -23.4" down, 1855 fps, 2293 ftlbs 350 TTSX 2800fps, 2" sight-in at 100 yards at 300 yards --7.2" down, 2244fps, 3914 ftlbs. at 400 yards -21.7" down, 2074fps, 3211 ftlbs. Truly a load that reaches out and touches very hard. Flatter, better weight, better energy, better expansion. Granted, a 416Rigby will do the job with both 300 and 350 grain all-copper bullets, but people are not aware of the signficant difference that comes with the high BC of the 350 grain TTSX. (.444/350grainTTSX vs. .298/300grainTSX) If you can raise the relatively light 300 grainer to the energy level of a 350gr at 2800fps (6092ftlbs) with good accuracy, likely, but not a given, the 300 grainTSX at 3025 fps (6095 ftlbs) produces at 300 yards --6.4" drop, 2184 fps, 3176 ftlbs., and at 400 yards -20.9" drop, 1937 fps, 2500 ftlbs. (a <1", 0.7" gain at 300 and 400 yards, but already lagging in fps, and 700 ftlbs lower in energy.) Your call. With the 350TTSX you have a plains' bullet that is fully buffalo ready. The benefits of a high BC. Plus, flatnose solids of the same weight are available as backup. Something to consider, or better, to test in the rifle. And it's hard to not want to follow the advice of TETONKA: 416 Rigbys rule, "Just go hunting". Well, I hope to get out at least once this year. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Hi 416 Tanzan, You have convinced me to try the 350gn TTSX. I developed a load for the 340gn Woodleigh with AR2209 (H4350), but I only got to 2740fps where I felt the case head expansion was too great to go any higher. What powder do you recommend to get 2800 fps with the 350gn TTSX. | |||
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We are using 102.5 grains (but see below, where we guesstimate 101.5 for TTSX) of Reloder 17 with the 350 TSX. Hornady brass 315-320 grains empty. No pressure signs, beautiful primers, but I don't remember measuring the case heads in the hot sun, where velocities went up to 2850, even a couple touching 2900 (out of about 15 test shots--not much else to do in the hot sun). When and if we get the TTSX's to Africa, we expect testing to lead us to drop one grain of powder because of smaller remaining case volume with the longer bullet. (Our TTSX's sit in NorthAmerica. We haven't had an opportunity to load up and test the TTSX's yet because our rifles and expendable reloading components are separated by an ocean and usual red tape.) PS: when the same batch of primers with our 416s are used with some 'in spec' 270Win loads they start to lose some of their shoulder. Similarly with some hotter 338WM loads, they start to flatten when case lengths start to grow. So these particular primers (Fed 215 Gold Match) are pretty good indicators on their own. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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duplicate post from the GMT 7:00-7:15 site maintenance period. [deleted] +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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That made my night. (I'm sure it's been lieing for years ) | |||
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