Seems the prices have fallen on these rifles have fallen back to where they were 5 or 6 years ago.

auction 1

This one has been shortened it looks like to me.

Auction 2

There are three or four for sale in Anchorage area gunshops and that price seems inline with the ones up here.

Its because of the availablity of similar rifles. The Whitworths are arguably the nicest but Winchester M-70 Safaris are back and Remington 798s just evaporated and Zastava Mausers can still be had new for $600 if you look hard enough.

quote:

Originally posted by viperidae:
Its because of the availablity of similar rifles. The Whitworths are arguably the nicest but Winchester M-70 Safaris are back and Remington 798s just evaporated and Zastava Mausers can still be had new for $600 if you look hard enough.

What would be the difference between a Whitworth, a Zastava, a MkX and a Remington 798?

Seems they share parentage--Yugoslavia. Only difference is the stampings on the exterior? I have never read or heard of one being slicker feeding, more rounds down, foolproof for a DGR or other uses any more so than others of similar ilk. I feel one may get to a "suitable" Mauser quicker and cheaper using one of the above mentioned actions than, say, an Argentine. I could be wrong, so let the arrows fly.

Stephen

I have not noticed the Whitworths have gotten cheaper at least the ones with leaf sights, and those that are original. I am excluding the cheapo plain barrel MK 10 and the plastic stocked Mk10s....

What I have seen is the monkied with Whitworths have fallen off the block..but they have had stocks replaced or messed with, stocks have been cut short, and muzzle brakes have been added, all manor of modifications both good and bad, but the original and clean Whitworth still brings the same money it did 3,4, and 5 years ago and that is around $1100 to $1200

I would much prefer a good whitworth Express Mauser in original condition over a cheap Zastava or even a new Mod. 70...

I think Ray hit it on the head when he mentioned Express rifles.
In my opinion, and that with a nickle will get you a look at a cup of coffee, the main reason the prices seem to be dropping is that buyers are becoming educated in what to look for. The valuable Whitworth Express Imports are still up there in dollars. Two other collectors and myself included will still pay top dollar for the original Whitworth imports. Those with proofs, stampings script, soldered ramps and pancake cheeks on better than average wood.
Nothing wrong with the second, third and following generations as far as function, ease of carry and performance but they are not the collector prizes. I have a Mark X that outshoots several of my second gen. Whitworth Rifles and that is a good thing because those I can carry and shoot all day without worry. I even have one that has all the earmarks of an Import and probably was but it is stamped Mark X which some will not pay premium prices for. All the better for me.
Now is the time to buy these great Mauser Rifles as shooters and hunting CRF rifles.
The Whitworths were supposedly manufactured in England and the Mark X were supposedly manufactured in Yugoslavia but I wonder if the Whitworth was simply assembled in England. It would follow suit that the rifles were imported in as parts and assembled all being manufactured in the same plant. It would also follow that once the English connection was severed that the parts already manufactured would continue to stream into Alexandria for assembly using different practices (such as the screwed front ramp vs. soldered) and quality controls. There is also the fact that reference of Express Rifles in .375 and .458 is not made when discussing the smooth Barrel rifles such as the Viscount, Cavalier, Marquis, Alaskan and even the Mark X Whitworth rifles.
There is reference to the Early American Field Series as being manufactured in England but I have yet to find provenance to that fact. Anyone know where to get more info?
Frank

Insightful, Frank. Labeling rules regarding origin are more strict in the USA than Britain and Europe. Parts assembled in England and labeled "Made in England" may well fall short of the requirements for labeling "Made in USA" if those same parts are assembled in the USA. This is why you often see things with labels like "Assembled in the USA from Imported Components".

The best ones I have seen are marked like this. I had never seen any like this till recently.


I have often wondered why the "Express" rifles were never imported in calibers other than 375H&H and 458. I once saw a 7mm Mag with the express stock and sights but I don't know if it was made that way or if it was cobbled together. I wonder why the company didn't offer a 300H&H version, a 7x57, or a 404.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I have not noticed the Whitworths have gotten cheaper at least the ones with leaf sights, and those that are original. I am excluding the cheapo plain barrel MK 10 and the plastic stocked Mk10s....

What I have seen is the monkied with Whitworths have fallen off the block..but they have had stocks replaced or messed with, stocks have been cut short, and muzzle brakes have been added, all manor of modifications both good and bad, but the original and clean Whitworth still brings the same money it did 3,4, and 5 years ago and that is around $1100 to $1200

I would much prefer a good whitworth Express Mauser in original condition over a cheap Zastava or even a new Mod. 70...

I'm inclined to agree. I have one and it is a wonderful gun.

I am quite happy with my 12/90 Mark X Whitworth. It is at the gunsmith now being "monkeyed" with in the form of a Pachmayr Decelerator in the old english style and red to match the original. I'm torn on the pricing as I always look forward to my investments increasing in value but on the other hand I do want to add a companion rifle in 375.

The script photo above is a good indicator or the import rifles. I have a couple where the script is also on the left action flat without the Whtworth Banner on the top of the action ring.
The American Field series included a 7 mag and a 300 but I have never seen one and would pay a premium price if an express version were found.
Hizzie, you do have one of the better made Mark X's if I remember and yes you should add a .375 to the stable.
Remember to save the original pad since it will add value to the rifle if you ever decide to sell it. I would buy it now if you are so inclined.
Frank

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Martinez:
The script photo above is a good indicator or the import rifles. I have a couple where the script is also on the left action flat without the Whtworth Banner on the top of the action ring.
The American Field series included a 7 mag and a 300 but I have never seen one and would pay a premium price if an express version were found.
Frank

I found an old listing with pictures on an auction site where an Express version in 7mm Mag sold three weeks ago. It has the express stock and sights. It says "MARK X" on the receiver ring and has a castle on the barrel over the chamber.

The Whitworths we are discussing I think are the ones that were built only in 375 and 458 Win. I think they are referred as Whitworth Express rifles..They are excellent rifles.

Ray - follow the link to the pictures in my post just above yours. What about that 7mm?

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
Ray - follow the link to the pictures in my post just above yours. What about that 7mm?

That is indeed one of the American Field rifles. They did also make one in .300. That rifle with the "Castle" is one that I am always seeking.
Here is one in .458:

Geez I must have been asleep at the wheel on that 7.

Whitworth discussion thread:
WHITWORTHS

Hey thanks for posting that Scott. It must have been up while I was offline.
Did that rifle in Texas ever sell?

Here is a little text from a magazine article I clipped to save some time ago. It is where I got my info on the rifles never really being manufactured in England but really only assembled.

"Bolt-action sporting rifles in various popular calibers carrying the Whitworth name were made from the late 1960s to 1997. The information I have indicates they were assembled at Manchester, England until 1980, using Mark X Mauser-type actions imported from Yugoslavia. After 1980 the complete rifles were made in Yugoslavia. Some models still carried the Whitworth name but were marked as made in Yugoslavia rather than at Manchester.
I’ve also heard of Whitworth rifles made at Manchester using military surplus model 1917 “Enfield” actions, but have never seen one, even in pictures.

Your rifle appears to have been made at Manchester and the markings you mention are British proof marks. I don’t know what action your rifle has, but if it is the Mark X action it would be a Mauser type with a swept-back bolt handle. Also, 1917 actions had a dogleg bolt handle.

From about 1970 to 1997 Interarms imported these rifles into the US with various model names such as Viscount, Cavalier, and Whitworth Express. They are considered to be good quality hunting rifles comparable to popular US made bolt-action hunting rifles. The current Blue Book suggests values of $375 to $475 for 100 per cent condition Mark X Whitworth rifles made in Yugoslavia, and a “slight premium” for those made in England. There is no particular collector interest at this time and their value is as well made sporting rifles. —Dave Anderson"



Gives a bit more insight into a great rifle.
I would say the collector interest is growing.
Frank

Well I know for sure the market for modified manchester ones in 06 is crap. I have one for sale and no bites even at 650 with a leupold scope. It seems now unless you're willing to really take a bath on them the market in general for guns sucks. I'd rather take a personal loan than give the stuff away (If I were in a hurt, I'm only selling to make possible other stuff so don't have the dilemma).

I have a buddy that I haven't seen in a while, he had one in 375 H&H, probably hasn't even been shot in 15 years since last time I shot it, it was what inspired me to get my 375 mod 70. After shooting holes in tractor discs I knew I needed one.

Red

The bottom line for the average Joe or less initiated person wanting to purchase one of the better Whitworths without taking a beating could be simplified I believe by the following suggestions:

1. The gun should have 3 leaf express sights.
2. The gun should have a European walnut stock with low comb, Ebony forend tip, and with the traditional egg or pancake cheekpiece.

If it has these items then it should bring in the $1000 to $1200 price range, depending on condition. If its really rough but usable for hunting then $800 to $900 would be fair IMO, and slow to increase in value..The fine condition guns will be an investiment that will increase in value over the years. I have seen these guns go from $400 to $1200 in roughly the last 10 years I guess.

Just my opine on this subject.

I think that all of the ones that were made with decent wooden stocks are decent rifles. About the time they started offing them in plastic stocks the quality seems to have gone downhill fast. I have two express models with British proofs. Those are very well finished with what appears to be quality blacking, acceptable fitting and finishing, and walnut. They are not great rifles but simply utilitarian tools.

Frank,

I have a Whitworth 7mm Rem Mag that is a twin to the one sold at auction. It has the express sights, pancake stock and the same Whitworth barrel address as the photo posted by Grenadier. Send me a PM if you would like more info.


Tim

quote:

Originally posted by HotRail1:
Frank,

I have a Whitworth 7mm Rem Mag that is a twin to the one sold at auction. It has the express sights, pancake stock and the same Whitworth barrel address as the photo posted by Grenadier. Send me a PM if you would like more info.


Tim

Thanks very much Tim. PM on the way.
Frank

I have a 458 Win Mag marked Whitworth in an oval on top of front ring and Whitworth on left side of front ring. It is marked Cal. 458 Win. Has floorplate release in the triggerguard bow. No English proofs. Proper stock,express sights and red recoil pad marked Whitworth (hard as a rock I might add). Nice blue. Proper markings on left rail on side NOT top. Appears to be virtually unfired. Has the barrel mounted recoil lug. Front sling swivel is on barrel. Bought it several months ago from a local dealer for $400. Had no need for it just too good a buy to pass up. Had a spare old Williams reciever sight I have installed and removed the leaf express rear which was held on with 2 screws.

Sounds like you have a good one. If you ever want to sell the sights I would be interested.
Frank

I recently picked up a 243 with screwed on ramp frt sight,
barrel band swivel, ebony tip,screwed on island express 3 flip ups,is marked as Whitworth on top of ring in oval, and on left side of ring. proof Marks or ??? on right side
of ring appear to match on both action ring and barrel. Stock is classic with some color,checkering pattern is as the 458 and 375 Whitworths. case colored grip cap,Whitworth labeled pad and shadow line
classic cheek piece.Condition would be a good 97-98 %. Blue is high polish. Flr plte release is lever in bow of Trg grd. I have searched for Whitworth data and find no mention of the 243.
Do I have a rare "one off" or ???

I didn't realize they came in all the different calibers, probably because only the .375 and 458 catch my attention....