I have long wanted a left handed 400 Whelen to to compliment my left handed 35 Whelen. I took the plunge. I recently picked up a model 70 Classic left handed 30-06 and sent off last week for a .411 Shilen barrel. It will be 5 months they say for delivery but Shilen makes a great barrel so I don't mind the wait. It will give me a chance to gather other accessories; dies, bullets, barrel band swivel, etc.

I found a smith locally with a reamer (original, based on Petrov's research) who will fit the barrel for me. I need to line someone up to sweat on my Redfield barrel band sight and a barrel band swivel. The rifle will be sort of a semi-custom, I will keep the original stock but will most likely add a cross bolt and ebony forend tip. I would like to add a Lyman 48 sight to it but don't know if one for an original model 70 could be made to work for a new lefty 70. If anyone knows the answer to that one I would be greatly appreciative.

I am getting more excited about this build every week. I had long considered the original 400 Whelen as a viable cartridge choice and doubted the long accepted idea that it had too little shoulder to properly headspace. After reading Michael Petrov's research into the matter I was convinced that my ponderings were correct. The original 400 Whelen has adequate shoulder to headspace. After meeting Michael and discussing the build with him I was even more convinced.

So I'm counting off the weeks. I doubt it will be ready for this years moose season but that's all right, I will have a winter project for next year and then maybe it will be ready for spring bear.

Mart

I built a 400PDK it is my own version. Uses 2.65" 06 cylinder brass and the small shoulder is forward of the Whelen. Second from the left is a 400PDK with 300gr and second from the right is a 400gr. Middle is the 375 Whelen and right is 375H&H.

I had orginally built it using 280 brass and seated the bullet to 3.34". Going to the longer brass I didn't gain any net capacity but it allowed me to use the cannelure on the 400gr and be 3.34". My net capacity gain over the Whelen is about 8 grs using a 3.34OAL more if you seat the bullet in the cannelure on the Whelen.

My hunting loads are 2675fps for the a 300gr and 2250fps for the 400gr DSX.

I've NEVER had a headspace issue. Toomany Tools did have to fool with the feeding. With a shorter OAL you probably won't have as much issue.

Someday,
I'm going to have to get another CZ550 and send it out to Zhat for thier 411 Hawk treatment.
The only reason I would go for the 411 Hawk is because its like One Stop Shopping.
They can do it all in one shop, including the reloading dies.
I sure dont need it, but I sure do want it.

quote:

Zhat for thier 411 Hawk treatment

Best of luck getting Z-hat to complete anything for you. Been a lot of people on here over the last couple of months really frustrated trying to even get him to let them know the status of theri work. Much less ever seeing it.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

Zhat for thier 411 Hawk treatment

Best of luck getting Z-hat to complete anything for you. Been a lot of people on here over the last couple of months really frustrated trying to even get him to let them know the status of theri work. Much less ever seeing it.

I'd get Wayne at AHR to do it-- He will answer his phone. Thats a good start to doing business.

Ed

quote:

I'd get Wayne at AHR to do it

I tried to talk him into chambering for the 400(411) Howell. Said he had the reamer never had dies made. That would basically be the same as my PDK simply 2.6 vs 2.65 and slight shoulder change.

As usual I am monitoring this thread closely as I too have the 400 Whelen bug.
I have an 03 Springfield action that needs to be a Whelen in the worst way.
I am getting closer all the time, it is my next gun project.
Mart keep us posted on your project and Ramrod your information and insight is always appreciated.

Well crap,
That will really wilt your dreams.
Oh well, I'm sure someone will fill in the void.

Cheers John

Don't know what type performance you guys are looking for. Couple things to consider. Looking at the 400gr Hornady for example. My case is 2.65" bullet in the cannelure OAL is 3.35. In the Whelen in the cannelure the OAL would be around 3.15. Just playing with my case that difference in oal was about 75fps. With that 411 bore it is more how much powder can you get in the case vs pressure as an upper limit.

So a thought would be to either not use the cannelure or cut a new one and load out to 3.34 or there abouts.

That leads to throat. I found that a long bullet jump didn't effect my accuracy but it did increase my velocity. So you might think about a longer throat.

The Hornady 400DSX is a very tuff bullet I have made several double kills on Texas hogs. The 300gr Hornday at my velocity is a gray mist when it hits. Find for Hogs but I would sure test it before I used it on game. It is designed for 405 velocity.

As a nice cheap 350 bullet I've been drawing 350 speer 416 bullets. Lube them well and my rockchucker will push them through a 410 $15 sizing die.

Powder. If you notice Petrov had a lot of loads using 3031. He has several loads with the Hornady 300 at 2260. That is about 100% capacity. Take a look at his loads with H4895 same 60grs gives 2543. I use Imr 4895 and RL15 in mine.

Last but for sure not least. With as much misinformation over the shoulder diameter of the 400Whelen I have concern with dies. I don't know if anyone has them on special order. But if I couldn't verify the shoulder dia I would sure look to custom dies.

what type of barrel stainless or chrome moly and what profile did you settle on?
Best of luck on your project

I went with a chrome moly barrel. I have never been a big fan of stainless. I am more a blue steel and walnut kind of guy.

I am going with custom dies. I am sending some fired cases from my smith's rifle, cut off the same 400 reamer, to C-H to make dies. I have used their dies many times before and their prices are considerably less than RCBS.

Ramrod, are you using a 41 mag sizing die to reduce those 416 bullets? I was considering getting a reducing die but have a couple of sets of 41 mag dies around if they would work. I suppose I could chuck one in a friends lathe and open the decapper rod threads, if they needed it, to create a push through sizer.

I am planning on ordering several different bullets to try, Woodleigh, Hawk, Hornday, Barnes, North Fork. I am leaning more toward the 400 grain RN's but will be trying everything I can including cast bullets.

Mart

quote:

Ramrod, are you using a 41 mag sizing die to reduce those 416 bullets

It is basically a .410 lee cast bullet sizing die. Cost around $17 from Midway.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewP...productNumber=601977

A 41 Mag sizing die reszies the brass so the id of the die is along the lines of .434" not .41 of the bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
A 41 Mag sizing die reszies the brass so the id of the die is along the lines of .434" not .41 of the bullet.

Good point, I wasn't thinking there.

Do you get any spring back on the 416's when going down to 410?

Mart

quote:

Powder. If you notice Petrov had a lot of loads using 3031. He has several loads with the Hornady 300 at 2260. That is about 100% capacity. To me that powder is way to slow. Take a look at his loads with H4895 same 60grs gives 2543.

Uh, 3031 is faster than 4895. By quite a bit depending on the case.

.

quote:

Uh, 3031 is faster than 4895. By quite a bit depending on the case.

You are 100% correct. For some reason I had my think cap on backwards. I altered my original statement. I do still feel that something in the 4895 range makes a better choice in powder.

My .400 Whelen (on a DHT Springfield action with G&H side mount and Lyman 48 sights) has been in my possession since 1969.

However, sometime in the '70's, I got a brainstorm and had a .400 built using the .284 Winchester case, on an Oberndorf Mauser action. Roughly the same case capacity as the .400 Whelen, decidedly more shoulder to headspace on, and it fits nicely in a Model 98 magazine.

I have a supply of .405 Winchester bullets made by Kynoch, as well as some 450/400's by the same manufacturer, so components have never been a problem.

All this trouble when you can walk down and buy an off-the-rack .416 Ruger. You just gotta love a wildcatter... LOLOL

quote:

buy an off-the-rack .416 Ruger

Who wants to be like every other kid on the block.

I stand corrected. Ruger does not make the .416 Ruger in a left hand action.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

buy an off-the-rack .416 Ruger

Who wants to be like every other kid on the block.

My sediments exactly. I cannot think of an off the rack, new, bolt action rifle that holds even a minute's interest for me. I guess I am living life in the past lane. My interest lies in classic old rifles and cartridges. Now if Winchester brought back the left handed model 70, I would be interested in a new rifle, but mostly for the action to build a rifle chambered for a classic cartridge, standard or wildcat.

Mart

quote:

Do you get any spring back on the 416's when going down to 410?

I've done the speer 350g Magtip and some other bulk 400gr 416s purchased at a gun show. They both still measure 410 9-15 months later just like they came through the die.

The barrel arrived this week and will get it to the gunsmith in the next few days. It's getting closer. I could be at the range with it very soon, albeit no bluing or sights.

quote:

I tried to talk him into chambering for the 400(411) Howell

I just picked up a 416 Howell last week...built by Paul Marquart on an FN Mauser action, with dies and a bunch of brass and bullets. Should be a fun caliber to play with.

quote:

Originally posted by mart:

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
[QUOTE]buy an off-the-rack .416 Ruger

Who wants to be like every other kid on the block.

My sediments exactly. I cannot think of an off the rack, new, bolt action rifle that holds even a minute's interest for me. I guess I am living life in the past lane. My interest lies in classic old rifles and cartridges. Now if Winchester brought back the left handed model 70, I would be interested in a new rifle, but mostly for the action to build a rifle chambered for a classic cartridge, standard or wildcat.

Mart[/QUOT


I like your choice of modifiers and adjectives.

Thanks,

Stephen