This is my mate Pete shooting his Lott. It started life as a 458WinMag. (fingers crossed, hope it works)

Big Bang

Bakes,

It works! Well done. Out of curiosity though, why doesn't it smoke or something upon firing? All I watched was the muzzle rise very high. I was expecting a big flash or something - slightly anti-climatic (though I'm sure it wasn't for the shooter!).

Good show!

Tex

interesting vidclip, tex21 is correct no muzzle flash smoke, not even advanced one frame at a time?

Smokeless powder fella's....smokeless powder

As to why, I don't know. Perhaps the quality of the camera? It is a small digital camera (the wifes, had to sneek it out )

Funny, same rifle in .458 win does not have much muzzle rise at all...

Dan

Couldn't see the clip, after waiting 10 minutes for it to load, but if this is the bloke with the Ruger No.1 it's just his style, to roll with the punch.
John L.

Got a CZ 550 Safari Magnum with the European/Lux/Hogback stock converted from 458WinMag to 458Lott.

Friend and I were out shooting it off hand (as well as off the bench) yesterday....

Nowhere near that kind of muzzle rise or back-bowing, full house loads too....

Point of the shoulder comes back 5-6 inches or so, muzzle comes up about 8-10 inches, small back arch, some head snap --- nothing like that though....

I've heard Ruger No. 1's weren't particularly recoil friendly, maybe so.... I dunno, different strokes for different folks perhaps.

Jeeze, I keep getting the feeling, after reading your posts that you all think this is a bung on

Pete is a small bloke, smaller than me (I'm 175cm and 100kg)And the rifle booted him abit. However it booted me as well,let me tell you. So the muzzel rised high, so what, Pete rolled with the recoil and shot it well. At least he's out hunting with his big bore!

I posted the clip out of interest, as it is of a guy having fun shooting his big bore rifle. I wasn't expecting any comments, espically comments calling the clip into question.

I didn't mean to accuse -- I wasn't sure if the clip was intended in humor... BUT my own #1 in .458 win comes almost straight back -- I'd be surprised if the .458 lott were so radically different in behavior, so I figger'd I'd ask/comment (?)...

Dan

Bakes,

I didn't mean to criticize or call the video into question. I was just surprised there wasn't more smoke or some similar effect.

No worries!

Bakes,
Hmmm, I can see how you would take it that way, sometimes no good deed goes unpunished. I don't doubt it is a live clip of someone shooting a 458 Lott in a Ruger #1. The part I am curious about is w-h-y do I see what I see on that clip....,

My comments were motivated by the fact that IMHO most shooters are quite recoil shy (largely due to lack of training and lack of well fitted rifles). As a whole they see us (BigBore affectionados) as a bunch of wackos who like pain, suffering, torn rotator cuffs, and detached retinas. As folks who have shot Big Bores know (at least in most cases) Big Bores are generally quite doable and their fierce reputation is worse than their bite with a good fit and some decent pre-shot advice.

Anytime I either hear stories decrying the overwhelming punishment of big bores or see footage essentially showing what appears to be the same, I feel a need to question it --- Why do these folks say, believe, demonstrate this wild stuff? Can it really be that bad?

If you take a 30-06 shooter and show him that footage and then encourage him to join you to go out and burn a few rounds of 458 Lott, then it is unlikely you will get a taker and the belief that it is all just "absolute craziness" is perpetuated.

I remember someone here on A/R had a thread "What am I shooting?" with a film clip in it. I studied the film and guessed a 300 WinMag the guy didn't move much at all really. Turns out it was a 460 Weatherby; he handled the recoil on that rifle really really well and was easily positioned to rapidly cycle the action for a second shot. This appears to be the opposite, I would have guessed a 500A2 or 600 Something based upon the drama that unfolds (muzzle is within 10 degrees of straight up), hence my remarks.

Like someone said, "perhaps it is his style."
What did that rifle weigh and how long is the barrel? That may explain nearly everything....

No worries guys. I may have taken things the wrong way (been working nights and have lost my humor ) Thats why I use smillies alot, lets people know my tone.

When I shot the thing the muzzle climbed a fair bit as well and that was the first time I shot a modern big bore (bloody hurt as well )

I've commented on this before. The shooter is doing the majority of the muzzle rising in that clip whether he knows it or not. A .458Lott simply does not rise that much.


In time and with practice the shooter will learn to keep this rifle under control. It is simply a matter of technique.

Here is a picture of me in full recoil with a full house .470 NE at the double rifle championships this weekend.

I also shot a .500NE and an original 8 bore which I have on video neither of which show any more muzzle rise than in these pictures.

I am a large person so I soak up recoil pretty well.



Here is Dirk he's a more normal sized humanoid this picture is also in full recoil.

What you all are forgetting is, Pete was "shooting for effect" with the audience assembled, and. . . He started off with the rifle aimed up at this feral cat up a tree.
Now as soon as Pete starts out on our charging water buffs, he'll hold her down for the quick reload.
John L.

(going to try to see the video again if it was that good.)

I went over the video as near as I could to frame-by-frame (well -- not that good)...

Saw the gas from the muzzle (no flash visible -- even my .458 shows flash), saw the rifle come back, THEN saw the muzzle being lifted up. I still don't get it

Dan

WHAT is there to get???

Its just a clip of a guy shooting his rifle! So the muzzle probably rises more than if you shot it, SO FUCKEN WHAT!!!!!

Do you think I said to Pete "Mate when you pull the trigger, just lift the muzzle real high"?

What would be the point? Everyone's an expert on how high the muzzle should rise, JESUS. You weren't there! You didn't pull the trigger!

As I said before. I wasn't expecting any comments. If I was it would be along the lines of "Good on him, looks like he's having fun" OR "What load/bullet does he use" etc. What do I get instead. People going through it frame by frame and commenting on the lack of muzzle flash and how high the muzzle rises
I post a clip of a guy out hunting with his big bore, having fun, just because I thought it was interesting and thought others may find it the same,(After all this is a big bore forum) and the clip get pulled apart by all the "experts" because, well shit "my gun doesn't rise that much"

Does it worry you that much?..... Well it must cause you went through it AGAIN.

bakes,

This will happen when folks think there is more to something than immediately meets the eye. Or, they have too much time on their hands.

George

Bakes,

I am glad you are getting some flack - normally it is me at the receiving end

Anyway, I thought your friend was shooting a 243 Winchester by the look of its kick.

This is what a REAL gun does to an suspecting fellow!

Come on, there are all kinds of reasons that could happen. I got some sway from my 35 whelen ai one time, I had my feet almost touching and pointing to the side rather than inline with the bore, had no balance. my front foot almost left the ground.

I thought it looked fine and hope he had a good time. lucky bastard is probably going to get to hunt all those Australian wild animals that I don't have access too. I can only console myself in the knowledge that he is surrounded by poisonous snakes, damn I hate snakes. see, now I don't even feel bad about not going to Australia.

Red

Hi guys I'm the one shooting the .458 Lott, it's a bit amusing reading the various comments regarding the recoil, lack of smoke height of muzzle. As Bakes said I'm not a big guy and I don't have that much weight behind me, unlike some of the guys in the big bore discussion the rifle started life as a stock standard .458 Win Mag so I don't know if the factory .458 Lott # 1 weighs more, I don't have a death grip on the stock and basically I'm just pulling the stock back hard. I"m not into the "my gun is bigger, more recoil, more noise, more smoke, more muzzle flash, more pain" sort of debates I had the rifle reamed to .458 Lott because the Buffalo I hit didn't drop like the hammer of Thor fell on them as I thought would happen with the rifle as .458 Win Mag.
Yeah the muzzle lifted a fair bit and thinking back I'm sure I didn't help it on it's way.
"But there's no smoke" yup that's what you get when you match projectile, powder, quantity of powder, primer, lenght of barrel.
"But there's no muzzle flash" sorry, I like to burn the powder in the barrel, not give the bystanders something to ooh ah over. If I can get Bakes out with me again maybe we can get some sound on a future clip cos it ROARED!!
I would like to get the muzzle under control but short of a muzzle brake which I'm reluctant to do due to increased noise for myself I'm at a bit of a loss, though I did notice one guy in the picture posted by Surestrike holding onto the barrel next to the forend so maybe a tighter hold on the forend would do it.
Just out of interest the load was:
Hornady case 500gn Hornady full metal jacket Win magnum primer 76gn of ADI 2208 (max charge is stated as 78 gn)
Dago Red's comment about snakes made me smile, a week ago while doing the early morning checks on the work vehicles I lifted up the seat on the small truck to check the oil and wondered what the "rag" was doing on top of the engine, luckily the 2 metre rag wasn't poisonous!! it was a Olive Python, but yeah up here in the Northern Territory we have our share of snakes you really do want to stay away from.

On ya Pete.
I think the/any muzzle flash business depends so much on the brightness of the day, and the N.T. certainly is sunny.

As for the barrel lift which I've only seen in a previous still photo, I think you could hold it down more if you want to and as you get used to the beast.
I'm glad I've got a heavy steel Pecar on my "little" 458, brings it up to 10Lb. 6oz with 4 rnds.

I was wondering if the way the but sits on your sholder had any thing to do with it. Most rifles dig the "toe" is it? (the bottom of the pad) into my sholder which tends to lift the rifle under recoil.
Have fun.
John L.

Hi nt,
If you would like to get better control over your rifle try putting on a Pachmayer triple magnum recoil pad. Have the butt of your stock as close to 90 dgrees to the barrel line as you can. Lean into your shot a little like a shotgunner and you will be surprised at the difference. You may want to make sure your rifle weight is aroound 10 to 10.5 lbs. You can trim out wood and glass bed in some lead to do this and it gives you a chance to balance your rifle to your liking. Go to the videos on my site and look at the aimed rapid fire with my 470 Mbogo to see what I'm refering to. The 470 Mbogo is shooting a 500 grain bullet at 2500 fps. I'm not a heavy weight on the Big Bore section. I barely make it at 170 lbs.
Take good care and keep shooting,
Dave

Hi Pete (nt),

I take your comments with no salt -- easy to accept at face value.

But, the flip side is there is a reason why so many people picked up on the rise of the barrel as being a little odd.

There was a comment about shooting form. I won't suggest you need to fix anything if you're comfortable shooting that way, and if you are able to hit your target accurately. But another post picked up on the sense that your form might be related to the barrel behavior.

I cannot tell from the video where you've mounted the butt (it is on the far shoulder from the camera). If it is on your arm or the ball of your shoulder, you will find it painful -- maybe a little tingling in your arm? I try to put the butt of my rifle just inside of the ball and south of my wish-bone. I also try to face the target a little more squarely (more "open") to get more behind the gun. I've found that my .458 win (Ruger #1) is tolerable even without Past pads (it just has the original hockey puck recoil pad that came with the gun). My .375 H&H (Rem 700 classic I picked up a few years back) is more uncomfortable to shoot -- and feels more awkward than the #1.

In any case -- keep shooting and having fun with that rifle!! And don't take our puzzlement as criticism.. at least in my case, it wasn't intended as such... just trying to figger out how ya did that!

Dan

.

NT,

Don't be shy about wraping your fingers around the barrel like dirk is doing in the bottom photo. It can be a big help in regards to muzzle rise and control in general.

A problem with a heavy recoiling rifle is that the forearm will jump out of your hand if you don't have a good grip on it. This causes you to "chase" the rifle with your forearm hand and push it up in recoil.

Alf

The picture you posted is of an obviously novice and nervous big bore shooter. He simply isn't hanging on to that rifle like he should.

Bakes,

Sorry dude just a simple observation. If that upsets you so..Well I don't know what to tell you.

Hi nt,
Here is the link to the video I was mentioning.
http://www.470mbogo.com/Videos/Aimedrapidfire.mpg I hope the link works out for you. This is a 500 grain bullets at 2500 fps out of a 10.5 lb rifle built as I described in the above post. Still pictures just don't tell the story.

Take good care,
Dave

Thanks for the advice, I will certainly be looking at my stance and how I'm holding it.
I only have the stock pad on it at the moment but have researched recoil pads so one won't be too far away, I don't get any pain from the recoil so the placement is okay any constuctive criticism is good criticism so I'm not offended, would have been good to have sound on the clip to show people it wasn't a put on.
Dave, clip worked fine, after viewing it I can see a heap of things that I can use when I go hunting again I suppose I am so used to the low recoil of my .243 and .25-06 that I adopted my usual stance and hold, maybe a bit of teaching an old dog new tricks isn't so bad!

Pete

Hi Pete,
The triple magnum pad will spread the recoil over a longer period by compressing which slows down the recoil velocity. You will find the pad makes the shooting experience so different that you will become more confident in your shooting as well because it's putting the recoil factor to the back of your mind. I hope you give it a try and report your findings to help others.
Take good care,
Dave

Pads . . . Puddings. With my just found new skill, I just watched a video of Saeed shooting a 577 TRex or something. First time I've seen someone that would have got a Weatherby eyebrow with even a scout type scope mount.
Lucky no scope was installed. (or maybe it wasn't luck but good management ?)
John L>

Good clip, Dave!! It is much more like what I would have expected to see!! (which is why, I suspect, Pete's video provoked all the comments!)

Dave's suggestion about the shoulder pads is a good one: they do work wonders -- particularly in that they spread the shock. THey can make some uncomfortable rounds comfortable. But PAST pads aren't installed on the rifle. They strap onto your shoulder. No installation or modification to your gun.

Dan

Hi Dan
Just to clear up what you've said I'm refering to the Pachmayer F990 recoil pad that fis on the butt of your stock not the Past pad you strap on. This way you always shoot your rifle the way it will be.
Take care,
Dave

Dave, Thanks for clarification. I will still recommend Past pads as an easy solution that does a wonderful job.

Dan