I was thinking of picking up a Ruger RSM, not sure which caliber I want 458 Lott or 416 Rigby. Already have a 458 Win, but its not the stopper the lott is. Besides, my wife wants my 458 win, maybe I can work a trade.

John

What kind of 458 is it that your wife wants it ...
.
. Good Wife

She wants my 458 win in a Mod 70. it has a removable brake which she really likes

The Lott is really nice and strong . and you can shoot Win Mag ammo in it .. Could come in handy ......

Far be it from me to dissuade anyone from a new RSM-
But do you really think there will be a difference on game between a .458 Win and the Lott?

If you got the rigby- that would be a bit more flexible for plainsgame if it was accompanying the 458 win on a safari.

I would get the Lott, that way you can share bullets with your wife's .458 Win

quote:

Originally posted by notlim:
Far be it from me to dissuade anyone from a new RSM-
But do you really think there will be a difference on game between a .458 Win and the Lott?

If you got the rigby- that would be a bit more flexible for plainsgame if it was accompanying the 458 win on a safari.

The lott being 200 FPS more than a win can be significant, but the win does an adequate job on most things you point at. Wouldn't mind another 458 win, but ruger only chambers the lott. The biggest advantage I see to the Lott is that I could use 458 win ammo which is rediculously common in Africa in case of ammo loss. I can also use my 458 win as a backup gun in case of poor baggage handling (or gun handling).

There is just something classic about the Rigby, and having a case you could hide a football in is kinda cool. But one less round in the mag can be disconcerting when things hit the fan.

For plains game I would probably bring a 375 H&H or 340 Wby. Either has the reach and power needed.

John

If you are going to take a .375 anyway, then the only choice is the Lott.

I truly believe that the 200fps is not noticeable at all. If you hit in the right place it's done with a Lott or a Win

2150FPS with a 500 grain bullet has been getting the job done for a loooong time in africa (or anywhere else for that matter)

Here is a factoid! The above average shooter is going to SHOOT the 416 Rigby a heck of a lot better than he is going to shoot a Lott. You wont be afraid of it, it wont give you scope cuts as easily and youll find it has more than adequate power for any game animal in the world. Thus youll shoot it more often! Many Lotts have quickly become safe queens! -Rob

In my humble experience,there's not an awful lot of difference in felt recoil between the two. You will search a loooong time to find 458WM that breaks 2000fps on an honest chronograph. IMHO you would be lucky to find 1900fps shooting a WM in a Lott chambered rifle. That Lott will generally clock 2275+/- with factory. The pick of the litter is the 450 Dakota/Rigby. My African load is a 500gr bullet at a true 2400fps.

That's the crusher...

Rich
Buff Killer

The Rigby has the cool factor, and can take anything that walks the planet. The Lott is over-rated. No real world difference on game compared to the Win Mag.

It looks like the 416 Rigby is gonna win out. Should be a good addition to the group so now I will have a 375, 416, and 458. The next stop will have to be a 500.

John

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter Already have a 458 Win, but its not the stopper the lott is.
John

John it's probably semantics here but I'm trying to figure your logic of your statement that the Lott is a better stopper than the 458wm. I think your comparing apples to apples, now if you make a comparison of the frontal bullet size say 45 caliber to 50 caliber with similar velocities then the "50 caliber is a better stopper than the 45 caliber".
The modern day 458wm loads with new powders are getting legitimate 2150fps velocities w/500 grain bullets I don't think any elephant or buff is going to feel the difference of a Lott doing 150fps faster. I wouldn't want to debate with Barrie Duckworth, Richard Harland or the late Paul Groebler that the 458wm is not the stopper the lott is. Between these four guys they killed thousands of elephant and stopped numerous charges with their 458wm with subpar velocities around 2000+fps. The 416 Rigby is a fine choice in the RSM.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:
It looks like the 416 Rigby is gonna win out. Should be a good addition to the group so now I will have a 375, 416, and 458. The next stop will have to be a 500.

John

Now your talkin!

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter Already have a 458 Win, but its not the stopper the lott is.
John

John it's probably semantics here but I'm trying to figure your logic of your statement that the Lott is a better stopper than the 458wm. I think your comparing apples to apples, now if you make a comparison of the frontal bullet size say 45 caliber to 50 caliber with similar velocities then the "50 caliber is a better stopper than the 45 caliber".
The modern day 458wm loads with new powders are getting legitimate 2150fps velocities w/500 grain bullets I don't think any elephant or buff is going to feel the difference of a Lott doing 150fps faster. I wouldn't want to debate with Barrie Duckworth, Richard Harland or the late Paul Groebler that the 458wm is not the stopper the lott is. Between these four guys they killed thousands of elephant and stopped numerous charges with their 458wm with subpar velocities around 2000+fps. The 416 Rigby is a fine choice in the RSM.

No semantics involved, I don't feel that anyone with modern 458 win loads would ever be undergunned! I am always leary of the 458 win vs 458 lott discussions. They both do the job but the lott does offer a bit more velocity which can help in certain situations.

My idea behind a 458 lott was to have two rifles which could fire 458 win in case one were to be damaged, but under further consideration, I could bring both and bring ammo for both. Look forward to the new toy, now to get brass, bullets, dies, shell holder, etc.

Big Bore,
For something unusual, try the 460 Guns & Ammo, and the 425 Express. The 460 G&A is a necked-up 404 Jeffery. I had Larry at Superior load me up some Trophy Bondeds and Tungsten solids for Tanzania Cape Buff last year, and they were quite effective in the Rifles Inc Safari I have.

The 425 is a great handloader proposition. It uses the 300 Win Mag case and the .423 bullet of the Jeffery, and gets a 400gr bullet up to 2,400fps. I have one in an A-Square that I have to get around to playing with....Biebs

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Big Bore,
For something unusual, try the 460 Guns & Ammo, and the 425 Express. The 460 G&A is a necked-up 404 Jeffery. I had Larry at Superior load me up some Trophy Bondeds and Tungsten solids for Tanzania Cape Buff last year, and they were quite effective in the Rifles Inc Safari I have.

The 425 is a great handloader proposition. It uses the 300 Win Mag case and the .423 bullet of the Jeffery, and gets a 400gr bullet up to 2,400fps. I have one in an A-Square that I have to get around to playing with....Biebs

I thought about the 470 capstick, but bullet selection is a bit limited. The 404 is a classic safari round that would be a fine addition to any arsenal. 450 rigby would be great to have, not only as a fine rifle, but as method to clean out ones sinuses. But times being what they are, budget plays a big part in decisions.

I will say hat a 400 gr Jeffy bullet flying at 2400 fps from a 300 win case is intriguing, wonder what the pressure is like on that bad boy.

John

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:
I thought about the 470 capstick, but bullet selection is a bit limited.
John

John,

You need only ONE good soft, like an A-Frame, and one good solid, like a Barned Banded Solid.

George

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:
I thought about the 470 capstick, but bullet selection is a bit limited.
John

John,

You need only ONE good soft, like an A-Frame, and one good solid, like a Barned Banded Solid.

George

Ditto that. There's more boolit selection in the .475 category then I'll probably every get around to trying/using.

The Ruger RSM may well be the finest factory modern out-of-the-box big bore rifle ever produced! Whichever chambering you decide on you simply can not go wrong. Buy with confidence and expect MOA. I have about eight pals that have one or more RSM's and every single one of them are beautiful MOA rifles with no custom work required (including no changing recoil pad).

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:
I thought about the 470 capstick, but bullet selection is a bit limited.
John

John,

You need only ONE good soft, like an A-Frame, and one good solid, like a Barned Banded Solid.

George

Good point! Here in the Condor infested Peoples republic lead is a no-no on those all important shakedown hog hunts, so I have one Barnes bullet to pick in the 470, and its really designed for the 470 NE. Of course, if the TSX can't do the job, we are all in trouble.

John

I did build a "working rifle" on the 425 express --the bullet choice is limited but there are good ones avalable barnes for one-- I have not developed what I would call a hunting load for africa for the rifle yet

but last fall it shot a 400 grain bullet at 2,310 fps using; win 458 brass necked down, fed 215 match primers, and 68 gn of 4895-- this rifle is a left hand rugger m77 II control round feed 338 win mag action [$500]-- a composite stock w frame,-- limbsaver recoil,-- 3 merc tubes in stock for wt and recoil,-- african express sights,-- band sling on tube, --a 1.5-5 scope on QR mounts,--and a on off recoil suppressor keyed under the front hood site,-- I don't use it I keep the ring band on under the site you can't tell its been messed with when thats on there.--It packes a montana sling [the quick sliding one] all that for about $1,500 at the GUN DOCTOR Ithica Mr Chase and it comes out at 9 1/2 pounds flat black-- as such it is eazy eazy on the shooter and kills up there with the big boys.

Chase built me 3 of these LH rugers one in a 375 taylor one in a 416 taylor and this one the 425 express all the same I like the way all of them respond in recoil and on the croni This is somin you can take to camp knoc around with the ph in the pickup truck kill stuff caus when you pull the triger it shoots dead to point and on the way home your headach will be related to the scotish famous grouse and not the 500 ne recoil thats how it is with an efficent little basterd like the 425 exp IMHOP

As for the .470 bullets, don't forget the .475 pistol bullets, like the Speer Gold Dot or the Barnes pistol bullet. There's also Hornady and cast bullets available. I'm looking ahead to my .470AR build.

David

quote:

Originally posted by IanD:
The Rigby has the cool factor, and can take anything that walks the planet. The Lott is over-rated. No real world difference on game compared to the Win Mag.

.
.
Stirring the pot a bit are you Ian ,
. If you want to see the difference load the 350 gr TSX in both .. Sighted in 1 1/2" high @ 100 yrds the lott with a mv of 2700 fps is about 10"low @ 300 yards ,the bullet is going over 2000 fps @ that range and it has around 3300 fpe. ..Basically a strong loaded 45/70 , but @ 300 yards ...Mine wasn,t bad to shoot either with that load .. Noticeably less recoil than a 500 gr @ 2300 fps ......
.
\. I think B.B.B.H. will enjoy his new 416 Rigby . It is a great round , still a little too pinky finger for me , but if Brass is available for it ,it is very versatile ...But I havn,t found the ammo in many shops up here . That isn,t such a big thing tho .

Who..me?

I just don't see the big deal in 100-150fps difference in real world use. And for people to say that the Win Mag is not capable and to get a Lott instead, is complete BS.

But we don't want a certain individual to jump in here and go on a tangent....

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:


Stirring the pot a bit are you Ian ,
. If you want to see the difference load the 350 gr TSX in both .. Sighted in 1 1/2" high @ 100 yrds the lott with a mv of 2700 fps is about 10"low @ 300 yards ,the bullet is going over 2000 fps @ that range and it has around 3300 fpe. ..Basically a strong loaded 45/70 , but @ 300 yards ...Mine wasn,t bad to shoot either with that load .. Noticeably less recoil than a 500 gr @ 2300 fps ......
.
\. I think B.B.B.H. will enjoy his new 416 Rigby . It is a great round , still a little too pinky finger for me , but if Brass is available for it ,it is very versatile ...But I havn,t found the ammo in many shops up here . That isn,t such a big thing tho .

I think the general consensus amongst most folks, if you don't on a win, buy the lott, if you have a win, just leave it be. But I digress. Now I have to wait for the 416 to show up, and of course the California's 10 day agony period. Now to score some brass, bullets, and dies. Luckily my wife is tolerant of my midway habit.

John

Ian , if it,s any consololation I,m loading some win mag ammo first thing in the morning , with a VERY TRIED and PROVEN load of 84 gr Accurate 2230 ,fed 215 primer and a mollied 350 gr Speer Hot Core ....it goes 2550 fps out of the Spruce King ....It is a bear slaughtering load if ever there was one ....... Tryin to find a crik full of fish to go do some jump shootin on ........

Matbe have your smith lengthen out the action of the model 70 to 2,80'

Best of both worlds b/ u can shoot Lott and win mag ammo, and you won't "need" to buy a new gun. The Lott CN BE HANDLOADED to perform very similarly to the 416... the difference in SD will be insignificant and the bullet selection better and cheaper.

This is hypocritical advice b/c I have a 404

quote:

Originally posted by maddenwh:
Matbe have your smith lengthen out the action of the model 70 to 2,80'

Best of both worlds b/ u can shoot Lott and win mag ammo, and you won't "need" to buy a new gun. The Lott CN BE HANDLOADED to perform very similarly to the 416... the difference in SD will be insignificant and the bullet selection better and cheaper.

This is hypocritical advice b/c I have a 404

404 is the round that did it all before the 458 came out. I have a very fond respect for it. The previous owner of my 458 had the barrel shortened to add a removable brake. Usually I cap off the brake except for show shoots, but unfortunately that -2" makes it tough to get 500 grainers up past 2150 fps. I have thought about having it lengthened and loading lott cartridges to 2200 fps though, as it would be cheaper (not to mention better handling)than rebarreling, but I haven't gotten to that yet.

Truthfully, I always liked the 416 rigby and have wanted one for a while, so it didn't take much talking to convince me. Luckily I reload so I can afford to shoot it. With 416 in hand, I won't mind doing work on the 458.

John

Even after owning so many, the anticipation of a new rifle still stirs the soul.