quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
His head comes up erect, his shoulder slumps and his head is completely off the sights with each shot.At least two times the rifle is off his shoulder.He is also getting pounded by the recoil much more than you are.The video needs a fellow your size and strength who is familiar with working the bolt.Then, possibly when you bring the rifle up after reloading, he would have finished shooting all four.I don't care what I said previously.I was stupid back then.Bolts don't jam when you work them fast-at least mine don't except for my CZ's.

I would agree a piss poor example of how to work a bolt gun.

In response to the comments back when I first posted that video, I asked anyone that wanted to to come shoot with me and we'd record and post it here to AR. With the exception of WILL, who was being an ass, all for fun.

No one did.

I then asked anyone claiming Eric's shooting of the 416 Rigby as slow, to post themselves speed shooting a bolt so we can see their time stamp.

No one did.

So, Let's see your video of shooting a big bore bolt gun for your best time PDog. Please, nothing smaller than a 416 Rigby so as to keep it honest.

And please, let's see the target once completed as well. Accuracy counts.

Once you've done that, let's see your buffalo / elephant hunt videos with the same gun so that we can compare your range performance with field performance.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
George, you're still missing the point.

PDog says doubles are slower than bolt guns. That's a blanket statement that most people would agree with because it seems plausible on its face. Kind of like the masses questioning how killing an animal (hunting) can contribute to conservation. There are often more considerations than meets the eye at first glance.

I wonder what the answer would be if you asked 100 shooters who are not familiar, or only vaguely familiar with double rifles, "how long does it take a double rifle shooter to get off 4 shots"? I think most would be very surprised to hear that a proficient DR shooter can do it in 6 seconds. I'll bet most would say something more along the lines of 15 seconds or so.

I agree.I double can be really fast so I wouldn't be able to say which is truly faster.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
George, you're still missing the point.

PDog says doubles are slower than bolt guns. That's a blanket statement that most people would agree with because it seems plausible on its face. Kind of like the masses questioning how killing an animal (hunting) can contribute to conservation. There are often more considerations than meets the eye at first glance.

I wonder what the answer would be if you asked 100 shooters who are not familiar, or only vaguely familiar with double rifles, "how long does it take a double rifle shooter to get off 4 shots"? I think most would be very surprised to hear that a proficient DR shooter can do it in 6 seconds. I'll bet most would say something more along the lines of 15 seconds or so.

I agree.I double can be really fast so I wouldn't be able to say which is truly faster.

Probably highly dependent on the shooter George ... and the shooter's level of proficiency at the time. My video was about 8 years ago and I haven't keep up with the practice. It would take me a bit of work to get back to that level of proficiency.

In terms of reality in the field, there are so many variables I'd say it's negligible for past the 2nd shot. In XASUA's case of 4 rounds into his rhino, he was attempting to kill that one single animal as it charged. In my elephant video posted above, I completed the reload and could have easily shot the second bull while charging, but we were trying everything we could do to not have to shoot a second bull in self defense so instead of standing our ground, we beat feet.

So In Xasua's case, the animal came on all at once. In mine, there was a delay between shooting my bull and when the second bull became a threat. Because my bull dropped to the shot, I was able to take my eyes off the animal for a second and complete the reload in that time. But if my bull had not gone down immediately and instead charged, the second shot is all I would have been able to fire as he was pretty close for that first round. The video distorts the distance but it was about 6 or 7 yards. There would have been no time for a 3rd round with anything other than a semi auto loader.

I rechamber all fast follow-up shots from my shoulder - small bore to big bore.

And a slide action like an R8 would be even slicker.

I’m no where near as slick as Todd with a double.

I wear the ammo belt the same way- in front.

I am faster with the bolt gun on shots 3-4, but my double is extractors, not ejectors, and as he says, it’s not that terrible a difference between the .416 Rigby bolt gun and the .470 double. 4-5 seconds with the bolt, 6-7 with the double. Both would improve with serious effort, but frankly, my accuracy at distance needs more work than getting shot 3-4 in sub 6 seconds.

when will you double rifle shooters ever learn how to get off number 3 and 4 shots faster than a bolt action shooter...STAND ON YOUR HEADS STUPID!!

Actually, Ive never had any problems with a double or a bolt gun as to getting off shots, and I suppose their have been some circumstances wherein a double saved the day, but in todays Africa, and a ph or two backing you up and a game scout with a bayonet, your probably safe enough to climb a tree, when the shit hits the fan..In todays Africa its just good camp talk when someone has had too many sundowners!