Could those of you who have shot these two rounds give me your opine of felt recoil. I know that felt recoil is a very personal thing, but I wanted your thoughts on the difference between the two. If you could compare it to say a .375 H&H at say 2400-2500 FPS load.

Thanks,

Rusty
We band of brothers!

Don't they both fire bullets of about the same weight at about the same velocity with comparable powder charges? If so, they'd have similar recoil characteristics, if fired in similarly stocked rifles of the same weight.

Well, I've never fired a .416 of any sort but my .404 loaded to C. 2400 fps bites considerably more sharply than my .375 loaded hot. Both rifles have quite straight stocks and weigh within a 1/2 lb. of each other.

Hey Sarge,

Who built your 450 Rigby may I ask? It looks like your 450 Rigby has a 45 degree shoulder while my 450 Rigby has a 35 degree shoulder. I wonder which is correct. I remember John Ricks posting some dimensions of the 450 Rigby with a 35 degree shoulder. The reamer that cut my chamber came from Dave Cliff by the way. Thanks and Merry Christmas my friend!

If I may be so bold, if you are concerned about recoil with eitehr of these cartridges, stay away from them. Both kick harder than a 375. Big bore are not for the faint hearted.

Lucs

Oldsarge Question? How does your 404 with a 400gr. at 2150fps compare to a standard full power 300gr. 375?

My 404 has a low comb and recoil is minimal, even from the bench. I have fired the 416 with a high "American" comb and found the recoil to be much greater. My experience with the 375 was with the Sako Mannlicher and Federal 300gr Safari loads. From the bench it was worse than the .404.

KurtC I agree with you. I have had 2 375H&H rifles and I think that my 450/400 is more plesant to shoot. I still have a Sako 375 Handy Rifle 20" bbl. with the factory Mcmillian stock, and I Know the 400 is more plesant to shoot than the Sako.
I think a 400gr. 40cal at 2150fps provides the best DGR calibre with the least amount of recoil.

N E 450 No2,

Maybe we try to fix things that were never broken, since your .450/.400's formula of 400 grains in about .40" at about 4000 foot pounds has been considered the ticket in a shoulder friendly way to take the biggies for a very long time.

Rusty

I asked awhile back about equaling this performance in bolt actions and was pointed of course to the .404 which was essentially a near contemporary created for just this purpose. Other rounds that came up that could get these numbers in smaller modern cases with less powder and less recoil were the .416 Taylor, the .416WSM, and to get nearly there the .416 Express.

Fireplug

- I shoot a Brno 602 in .375H&H and a Mauser 100 year commemorative .416 Rigby (same as ALF). The .416 is a bit on the light side, approx. 9 lbs....felt recoil is quite heavier versus the .375H&H....my shooting buddies also agree upon that...

Like 450 No.2 I too own a 450/400 3 inch and I think it is the perfect balance of a good long .408 bullet and moderate recoil. I have a .375 and just was looking to see if the 416 or the 404 could be added to me collection without getting beat up.

Rusty
We band of brothers!

.450 #2

Duh, I dunno! I started off with the .416 equivalent load and never tried the Olde Englyshe version. Maybe I should, somday. I don't find the curent recoil unbearable off the sticks and once I have a rifle sighted in, I don't use the bench anymore, any way.

Ming,

Well, the rifle was rechambered by Frey's Gun Shop in Ridgecrest, CA, with a reamer by Clymer. I think Clymer built the original reamers for Rigby when they developed the cartridge I presume that it is correct. The shoulders look the same out of the rifle as they do out of the RCBS expanding die . . .

And a very Merry Christmas, all.

I think that stock design has a lot to do with the felt recoil. I have a Jeffereys and the recoil is no worse or even equal to the .375.

I shoot factory RWS, Woodlieghs 400 grn at 2300 and Woodliegh 350s at 2600. It is a very well designed and easy recoiling rifle.

I don't think any of the 416 wildcats are nearly as easy on the shoulder as they all shoot with much more pressure.

This is my rifle. Notice the lack of a recoil pad, it has a steel butt and I don't plan ar want to change it.

The low pad makes the .404 recoil pleasant from a rifle that weighs under 9 lbs.

Guess I still haven't figured out how to post pics.

Mickey,
Is that an original Jeffery rifle in 404 Jeffery?

Is that an M-98 action?

Hey, I would be proud of a 404 Jeffery in a rifle like that!

Ron

Yes, it's the Real McCoy. And I love it. Since you are so appreciative I will make a New Years Resolution to not poor mouth the .416 Rigby anymore. The other 416s are still wannabes and and are not included.

Mickey1,

What year was that 404 Jeffery of your made? I really really like the looks of that rifle! I understand if you don't reply back, cause you obviously don't know!

POSeur.

rusty,

i have owned a couple of 375s and now have a ruger m77 in 416. i guess it depends on when you're concerned about the recoil-- hunting or at the range. when i had my 375s i used to shoot them off the bench and never wore a recoil pad or used any sand bags-- after a box or so i was flinching and bruised up nicely-- especially from the 8.5lb gun.

when i got my rigby and went off to benchrest it, i didn't chance it-- i bought a PAST pad and didn't worry about looking like a sissy. also the stock on this gun fits me **MUCH** better than the others. now i can fire away pleasantly from the bench and my shooting is much improved.

in the field, with the heavy duplex of the leupold 1.5-5 lined up on a nice whitetail, i don't feel a thing.

your milege may vary if the intended application is varminting though! i am however gonna go on a coyote cull soon and-- much to my friends dismay-- i'm gonna tote my rigby along... just to "see what happens"

and i don't know exactly how hot the loads i've been shooting are-- haven't had a chance to chrono them-- i have been using light-for-caliber bullets (340gr & 350gr) loaded to max charge weight (from the barnes manual). i'm sure there's some room left, but that'll have to wait till next season...

i've been bitten by the rigby bug, and so i'm completely smitten with the cartrige-- so don't look for any objective discussion from me.

[ 12-27-2002, 11:59: Message edited by: ppk1911 ]

Still trying to post an image of a .404 stock.

[ 01-02-2003, 07:46: Message edited by: KurtC ]

The original question was a matter of recoi of the various 40 caliber cartridges. If one uses the recoil calculator from this site, one can calculate the recoil factors. In a rifle of same weight and stock demensions the recoil vaslue increases as the case capacity increases. According to the recoil calculator if the bullet weight, rifle weight, and velosity are kept identical then the recoil from the 416 taylor is the least and the 416 rigby/weatherby will be the most. Practically speaking I know it to be true as I have all of the .40 calibers except the 425 Express and the new 404 Dakota.
lb404

I don't have a 404 Jeffery but have plenty of time behind a .416 Rigby. Recoil is mimimal in a gun with a proper straight line stock, adequate weight(11-13 lbs) and a good recoil pad and a scope with good eye relief. If you can shoot a .338 Mag, you can shoot a 416 Rig/404 Jeff. I doubt there is any real difference in performance.-Rob

not to be argumenitive but I do not consider a rifle of 13 lbs to be a hunting gun it is a sniping rifle. If a 505 Gibbs loaded to 2600 ft./sec. is fired out of a rail gun of 80 lbs. the recoil might be said to be manageable, try it out of a rifle that you intend to cary all day in the typical safari style, one that weighs around 10 lbs. and you have a whole nuther can of whipass altogeather.
lb404

[ 01-03-2003, 04:22: Message edited by: Gator1 ]