I just picked up a nice sporterized 1917 in 30-06. shoots so so. thinking of building a big bore out of the action....458 lott, 416 rigby, not really sure. I love the 458 win mag but would probably go up to the lott for the extra.
are these actions strong enough? someone told me that A square based their rifles on these actions. is that true? any hints.

I wouldn't waste a good Enfield on a 458 lott or something that works in a 375 lenth action...Build a 505 Gibbs or something mean..

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

are you telling me that these actions are rugged? I have always wanted a 460 weatherby. 505 gibbs would really be nice but brass would probably be unbelievable expensive if I can find it. other good recommendations.......

Ray is rite on. Enfields are super actions but they require hrs. of work to get the ugly out.

My 500 Jeffrey is being built on a P-17. I suppose I didn't need an action quite so long, but I plan on using the 570 gr X bullets, which will require a long action.

The 458 lott I had was also put together on a P-17.

You may want to consider a 450 Rigby, essentially a beltless 460.

500 jeffrey.....who makes the barrel, where do you get brass..(affordable?), reload data?
I have heard of this round but do not know of any specifics. what is the caliber. is it the same as 50 bmg? wonder if those long hornady bullets would work?
this could be an interesting project.

The 500 Jeffrey is one of the more obscure African rounds. It is a unique case, larger in diameter then the 416 rigby, but slightly smaller in diameter then the 505 Gibbs case. I don't recall the case length, I believe 2.7", but since the original bullets were short, it could be fit in a std length action.

It is a .510" bore, so can use surplus bmg bullets. Brass is very exspensive, at $5 ea. A more affordable route brass wise is the 500 AHR, which is essentially the 500 Jeffrey, on a lengthened case, and w/o the rebated rim.

One of the nice things about this round, and other 50's, is you can download it to 500 linebaugh pistol levels, up to 50 Alaskan which is likely what I'll be shooting most out of it. I have a 450 gr mold already, and am looking for a 350 gr, and then maybe a 600 gr.

Eddystones tend to crack. Be sure and have an Eddystone magna fluxed for cracks before you put any money in it. The Eddystones are brutally hard this will add to the cost of work and make for more frustration if you try. How do you drill and tap something the drill and tap won't cut?? There are tricks but it isn't easy. I once broke a high speed tap off in an Eddystone receiver ring so, I know what I'm about here. Winchesters and Remngtons are fine. Still lots of work to convert one. If the action has not been modified think hard about puting it back in military form. Un-modified rifles are commanding a premium. A nice military p-17 will buy you a nice new sporting action. For playtime, look for one that has already had it's ears bobbed. There is a ton to do to these to make a decent sporter. Get the barrel off, (no easy feat; remove the shoulder in a lathe first), install a new barrel form a turned blank, Bob the ears, straighten the bolt, fix the bottom metal, cut the mag box, drill and tap, Fill the hole under the rear sight spring, modify the follower, convert to cock on opening (The Numrich kit is no good), un-ugly the bolt release, make it feed (no small feat), open the bolt face, modify the extractor, the trigger needs to be replaced,....It goes on and on!! Oh?!, can you make a stock from a board. Once you modify things no semi inlet will be correct. Enfields used to be a great hobby project for the amatuer gunsmith when the rifles were cheap and pleantiful. Before TV too Used to be a lot more blue collar metal and wood workers back then . That isn't so anymore. How many guys do you know that can run a lathe like an expert machinist and work wood like the finest cabinent maker/ wood sculpture? The world changes. So, if you have pleanty of tig welding, machine shop and wood working experience, plus a shop full of tools, have at it, It is a great hobby. I enjoy it. Forget about having a gunsmith do it for any reasonable price though.

[This message has been edited by scot (edited 04-25-2001).]

[This message has been edited by scot (edited 04-25-2001).]

DR.John, to answer your question. Yes, A-Square used the P17 Enfield to build their big bore rifles including the 577 Tyrannosaur. As the other posters have said the P17 can be made up into a nice big bore rifle but it will require a lot of work. The Enfield is a big rugged action, and like Ray pointed out I would not use it for a small cartridge like a 458 Win. It would be better suited for cartridges based on the 460 wby. head size and up.

The first 585 Nyati was an Enfield P-14. So have fun. Do not convert an action that is in military configuration, they are getting rare. You can find lots of "sporterized actions" for cheap. Good luck.

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"If you can keep your head about you when all others are loosing theirs and blaiming it on you..."

the rifle is not in original military condition. iron sites are aftermarket, nice large sporterized stock. drilled scope mounts. no rear site. completely sporterized. the barrel may be original. dark bore. the action is Remington. large and smooth action. very nice clean action.
just not sure what to turn it into......

Sounds good. Remington is a good one. To remove the barrel have the smith remove the shoulder from the barrel ahead of the receiver, using a lathe. This is very important to prevent damaging the receiver. It will relieve the tension. The original barrels were 5 left rifling configuration. .
You will still need to thread and chamber a turned blank. Also modify the magazine, as to who can do it, I don't know. Many can but we are talking several hours of work.
Here is an off the wall idea, make a 45-70. I have one that I made from a P-14. It is one of my favorites. If you get tired of that you can set the barrel back and make a 458 Win. Even a 458 Marlin.

I may consider making a 460 weatherby out of it. always wanted a 40 weatherby. it would need to get a muzzle brake though. who makes a great muzzle brake without making something large and ugly but really tames down the recoil? I have already found a gunsmith who could do it.
recommendations on barrel.....
parkerizing....is it expensive. always liked the look.

I must be blessed. My P-l7 already has the ugly out of it with a brand new walnut stock. Some guy was moving & unloaded it at the local gun shop. My price was $260. I can see it as one of the .458 wildcats. About all it will need is rebarreling (with the associated mag & bolt face work)& the stock finished. Has anyone in this forum ever used a variable scope on a big bore? I was thinking of one of the low end Leupolds.

well I finally did it. the 1917 is at my local gunsmith. will be rebarrelled to 458 win mag. has enough power for just about anything and is easy to load down to hot 45-70 loads for local hunting. plus brass is available at a reasonable price.
it will have a satin black finish on the metal, 4lb trigger, rib rear site and ruger like front site. 26" barrel. I should get it back in a few months. sooooo anxious.
I have always loved the 458 win mag. time to get another.

My local gun store has one for $326.00 approx. It is completely sportserized with a new stock I may have to go take it off his hands. I want to make sure it's not the Eddystone first. If it's a Winchester whoever did the work did a real nice job of filling the hole under where the rear sight used to be.

Cock on closing? No way Hose'. Big ugly and of highly questionable metallurgy in regard to Rockwell hardness, tensile strength and integrity without a gamut of precautionary tests. There are too many better actions out there to bother IMHO.

maybe big, but looks rugged. plus...aren't A-square rifles built with the 1917 action? (that is what I have heard) I have never of one of those failing. even the unbelievable 577 tyro. and people consider the A-square to be an incredible rifle. anyone hear anything different? anyone else have a big bore built on the 1917?

Oh contrare Nickudu,
The American Enfield can with some 'smith skill be converted to a cock on opening. And it will still strike the primer hard. Most Eddystones crack when the barrel is removed. The relief cut of the barrel in front of the action is the ticket. However the Eddystone is extremely hard on tools and hard to work. This makes the Remington and Winchester actions more desireable. As for the metalurgy, a magnaflux and Rocwell test are not that expensive and a good idea on any military action that is to be converted to a higher pressure cartridge. Add up the dollars to convert versus the cost of a custom action to do the same thing and you can build the entire Enfield converted rifle and purchase some ammo for the money.

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"If you can keep your head about you when all others are loosing theirs and blaiming it on you..."

I don't know if you would call it a big bore, but we built a .444 marlin on the P-14 action. Put a Shilen barrel on it, and it shoots and feeds great. Smokey

Dr. John,
Your still wasting a good action on the 458, as it will work in a standard Mauser or any other action, its short....just a thought..The 460 would have been a better round as would any of the 500's....

It is simple to convert a Enfield to cock on the upstroke and all should be hardness tested and most re-heat treated then surface ground, M-70 safty, Blackburn trigger and Sunny hill drop box magazine, rails polished and checked carefully for feeding....Same as Mauser. They make up into beatifull actions..

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

well, I really considered something larger. always wanted a 460 weatherby. really like the 500 jeff. also. but since my use of this rifle will be stateside and for fun I just couldn't see setting it up for rounds which are really expensive. 458 is not cheap but much more affordable. and easier to load down for the medium size game.
someday however I WILL own a 460 weatherby. I just need to find one that is more affordable than the going rate of $2000.
hoping that someone will have one in their collection and will want to get rid of it because it just beats them too much.

Can someone enlighten me about opening up the bolt face on the P 17? I've never done something like that and the P 14 is essentially the same action but for the 303, which has the case head size as the 375, so I've been looking semi-seriously for a P 14 action rather than the P 17. If it is only an hour or so to modify the P 17 bolt face and there is no asking for trouble strength wise, I'd appreciate some advise from you gentlemen out there that have done this before.

Consider ... a P-14 chambered for .405 Winchester. The cartridge head size of the .405 is same as .303 British. The Mag box will need to be lengthened 1/8 inch or so, but because the P-14 was designed for the rimmed .303, should feed the .405 Win flawlessly without much modification to the feed lips. And loaded to the potential of the receiver strength, the .405 Win should be a serious realistic cartridge for moose or bear. Lets bring back the .405 Winchester.

Ray, how do you deal with the magazine box on the Enfield? It seems to me that to modify it for a bigger than '06 cartridge it needs to have the 4 sides cut apart then re-welded to:

1. have the correct taper along the case length, and

2. have the correct top-down taper at the front end of the magazine box.

In addition, there is the issue of the dimension and curvature of that little half moon thingie at the front end of the box.

It looks like lotsa work.

About eight years ago I refinished the stock and fitted a recoil brake on an A Square 460 Weatherby. It was indeed built on a P17. It had a very nicely figured stock. I did not care for the shape.

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Gerard Schultz
GS Custom Bullets

I have a Remington Enfield that has been converted to the "puny" .458. No ears, new trigger, plain-Jane walnut stock, etc. It's long throated and will feed with bullets seated pretty far out. You can get a real 2200 fps with a Barnes 500 grain solid. Alas, it still has cock on closing and has a tiny safety like an old Ruger. Any idea who routinely does the cock on opening modification and can check out the reliability of the safety? And... maybe ream it out to a Lott??? It also still has the dog leg bolt, but it doesn't come close to whacking my trigger finger like some folks warned. I see no problem there. Any comments?

[This message has been edited by judgeg (edited 05-10-2001).]

Gentleman,

Does anyone know the MAX oal that can be made to feed through P-17? Also, can anyone recomend a good smith with experience converting these actions? I too have found a sporterized enfield that I will give a home, provided I can make something interesting out of it.

DOC

DOC,
You might want to try Fred Zeglin at www.z-hat.com. He is seems pretty knowledgable. He is the one I am going to have do mine when I get around to it.

I haven't seen anything written in stone about max COL, I would say a tad over 4". I can't recomend any smiths, I haven't gotten my P-14 500 Jeffrey back yet, so no comments on his work.