Bullet recovered from first buffalo shot in the head. Bullet penetrated about 24" and was found in the neck under the hide. Shot was taken at approximately 35 yards.


First bullet shot broadside into chest cavity of second buffalo. Bullet was found under the hide on the offside. Shot taken at approximately 50 yards.


Second and final bullet shot broadside into chest cavity of second buffalo. Bullet was found lodged in the offside rib cage.


These bullets were Woodleigh 570 gr soft points. Muzzle velocity was approximately 2300 fps. Woodleigh advised me after reviewing these photographs that the impact velocity was too high and that I should reduce my load's muzzle velocity. Thought some here would find this interesting.

Lucs

[ 11-21-2003, 02:30: Message edited by: 500 A2 ]

I must agree with Woodleigh.
Personally I do not see the need for more than @2150fps in the big bores. When all of your shots are going to ne at <100yards, why the need for so much velocity?
However.... If I felt the "need for speed" I would use a bullet up to the task.
I think the extra velocity causes bullet problems and heavy snappy recoil that slows down follow up shots, and risks retnal seperation.
If I thought I needed [or wanted] more "power" I would go up in calibre and bullet weight.
Which is why I want a 577 or a 600 Nitro Double

interesting..

here's what woodleigh's site has to say

http://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/Bullets.html#Anchor-53891

6
500 Nitro .510"
570gr RN SN
25
.313
.474
impact velocity 1800-2200
1.258

try a 535
or a barnes X

jeffe

THE .... I repeat .... THE most important thing I learned last year while in Africa was that high velocity loads do not kill well. In the recently published book by Tony Henley's son (written by Tony), Tony states in two different chapters that one should never take any gun to Africa that shoots 2800 fps or faster. He was speaking of rifles in the medium calibre range (.30-06, .270, etc.). This advice is right on the money ..... also, if we're talking bigger bores, then that speed should be further reduced accordingly. Loads need to be tailored slow enough to allow the bullet to properly do it's work.

I think the British Nitro ctgs have proven to have what it takes.
The formula is very simple:
Velocity @ 2100fps
SECTIONAL DENSITY >.300
Bore diameter .400 and bigger.

How much bigger depends on how big a hole you want to make/or how much elephant "knock out" power you want, in conjunction with how much recoil you can take, and how heavy a rifle you can carry.
If I want more "power" than a 400gr .400 at 2100 I would go to a 450/475 bore with a 480 to 520gr bullet at @2100fps, rather than up the velocity of the .400 400gr. bullet.

These bullets are .510", Woodleigh 570 gr SP, designed for the old 500 NE. I was shooting them in a 500 A Square. Bullet number one is approximately 1/2 it's original length.

N E 450 No2, you may well be right. I guess I mistakenly thought that the "magic" number was around 2400 fps. The bullets, ugly as they are now, did their job well.

According to Woodleigh all their .510" diameter bullets are suitable only for velocities below 2200 fps. This is why I now shoot Barnes 570 X Bullets.

For what is worth, is any jacketed bullet capable of withstanding the impact energies of the 500 A Square?

Lucs

All that velocity stuff depends on what bullet you use...A monolithic at 3000 will certainly work on buffalo, a conventional or lead bullet won't as a rule...

The monolithic has changed the game altogether my friends, we have to redo our thinking on that....

I am of the old school of big heavy slow bullets, but I see things happening that are impressive...Buff hurt when hit with Saeeds 375/404 and a monolithic at 2900 FPS. I have seen the effects of a 250 and 270 Monolithic out of a std. 375, a 230 gr. GS monolithic from a 9.3x62..these bullets are impressive and penitrate with the heaviest of conventional bullets wheather I'm ready to accept them or not.

It may just be a new ball game out there. I may be the last to buckle, but it may come to that one of these days.

Ray welcome to the dark side. I've been trying to express that fact for years. I knew if I kept up you would crumble.
Take care,
Dave

[ 11-21-2003, 08:14: Message edited by: 470 Mbogo ]

They certainly are banged up bullets. Well cleaned also I might add.
500A2 any chance of a pic of the buffs you took with them?
I beleive Pecos,RIP, Jeffeosso and co were still waiting for them...

http://www.nookhill.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005619#000012

Karl.

I've been pondering the velocity thing lately also. I remember reading about a Bull Elephant that was taken with a frontal brain shot with a .475 linebaugh. If memory serves me, it was recovered 2' into the neck. .475" 400gn at 1350-1400fps. In another article, Seyfried took a buff with the .475 through the sholders and it exited.

????????????

Those penetration numbers are close to what I saw with a bison head shot and a 500 Jeffery. Don't know what that bullet was or how fast it was going, but it look like the last two pics above and it only made it around 2 feet.

Kent

The 570 gr Woodleigh is designed for the 2150 fps muzzle velocity of the .500 NE. You should try the new 600 gr protected point for the .500 Jeffrey. Woodleigh doesn't list recommended impact velocities for this bullet, but should be higher than the 535 gr bullets.
On a side note, Phil Shoemaker used the 535 gr weldcore in a .510/.505 Gibbs for brown bear close up. He stated that the bullets never penetrated more than 18" at a muzzle velocity of 2150 fps (per Handloader issue 200 - .505 Gibbs).

"Bullet velocity too high .... Reduce bullet velocity" What Woodleigh said is true, of course, but 2300 FPS is about right for MAXIMUM penetration on heavy game. Witness the performance of the 173-grain Kynoch 7mm solids @ 2300 FPS as used by Bell....

What I believe the maker's comment means is "these bullets' construction is inadequate for use at 2300 FPS"!!

My reaction to this comment (and obvious poor bullet performance) would be to select a tougher bullet!! I think even a hard-cast solid lead alloy bullet would have penetrated further than these did.

[ 11-25-2003, 18:36: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

500 A2, AXEL and Judy coincidentally all seem to have a bad record shooting or witnessing large bovines shot in the head

On "500A2's" two accounts of the same story.

" One buffalo shot in the head and the other receiving two slugs in the chest broadside. Neither ran, actually they both dropped where they stood. The second buffalo just to two slugs to put down. These are the only two buffalo I have ever shot "

" In the two buffalo I shot with 570 Woodleigh soft points, the bullets only penetrated about 24". That 24" was enough to give an instant kill with a lung shot in both cases "

Woodleigh should be informed immediately that their bullets are prone to rematerialiase in different parts of the animals body 6 months later and rewrite history.

Its not reliable performance at all.

What if you killed an elephant with a head shot, took photos of it,went home and 6 months later it turned out to be a mere chest shot and what actually happened was it trampled you, and you have been dead all this time.

The complications of litigation do not bear thinking.

Karl.

[ 12-01-2003, 17:13: Message edited by: Karl ]

Now let me see if I've got this right:
(notwithstanding Karl's observations)

You recovered bullets from under the hide on the off side of two very dead buffalo, and you think the bullets failed?

eldeguello, you regard 24 inches of penetration through the heavy bones of a buffalo skull and neck by a soft-point to be evidence of "obvious poor bullet performance"???

REALLY, Gentlemen!!!

If I was shooting a 500 something or other then I would suggest Kodiak bullets from the north country and knock big gapping hole in what ever got in my way....a monolithic would do the same...

I don't see why in the first place one would use anything but a solid in a 505 or 500, they work better than anything else...