How much does .50 BMG cases cost? And how many times can you reload them?

How do you open up the .50 BMG case to caliber .700? What do you have to do? Rob? hubel?

Thanks!

//OK

They're around 45 cents each, plus shipping. I got mine from High Tech out of St. Louis, at $450/1000 ct.

http://www.iidbs.com/hitech

They are MUCH cheaper than the expensive betram shit cases. So it will be much cheaper to shoot a .700 BMG IMP than a .700 Nitro.

Robgunbuilder!

How do you open the .50 BMG case to caliber .700??? What tools?

Thanks!

Why improve the .50 BMG case? You won't gain very much from what I've read. A whole lot more powder burned, without very much gain in velocity...

Necking up to .700 caliber will probably result in a gun too fierce to fire...

Overkill-I make my 700HE by annealing BMG brass
and expanding it to .620 with 3 expanders, then
anneal again and expand to .705.Then use sizing die for basic shape, after I start belt shoulder
on the case in my case lathe. Out comes finished case, at .700 cal.Have one more expander to take it up to .727 for the 12GA From Hell, if anyone needs that.Ed

Urodojii,
700Bmg is not meant to improve upon on the 50BMg, it is a bigger 'fun gun' that's all. About as much power/weight as you could drag up a hill to have fun blasting things with.Unless you got a 20mm on wheels made.

Overkill, is bertram making 700 nitro?

Karl.

Karl is right.Rob's 700 BMG Imp and my 700HE
are designed to get more internal ballistic
effiency--Using easy to get and inexpensive brass. They will get a 1000 grains to the same
speed the original 50 cal case gets a 750 gr
bullet. About a third more efficient, in a bore
that can do major destruction to big game and
55 gallon drums.And give the shooter a hell of a
ride also...Ed.

.700 cases can be fireformed DIRECTLY from annealed .50 BMG cases by expanding the neck to .700 with a tapered expander ( this way the case mouth headspaces on the neck/throat junction enough so that the primer will fire), then adding 65 grs of Bulleseye and cream of wheat with a soap plug in the neck. One shot and you have a perfect .700 case.You could also use a bullet jammed into the rifling,but I'm not a fan of that appoach.-
This a whole lot more gun than a .50 BMG don't let anyone tell you any different and it's totally shootable.-Rob

[ 07-22-2003, 07:12: Message edited by: Robgunbuilder ]

I was thinking about the 12ga from hell and that you would need a rim on the BMG case, so why not turn off the rim up to the front of the extractor groove, then solder on a thick brass washer so it has some support 3/16" or so up the base, then turn down for a 12ga rim. Chamber in a 3 1/2" mag and you have the .723 CollarBone Express / 12ga 3 1/2" +P+P+. It'll still chamber 12ga, so no distructive device paperwork.
??????????????????????????????????

What does annealing and lathe means? sorry for the bad english
A .700 BMG IMP in a rifle with the MC Millan repeater action and with a "normal" hunting style stock and butt would be nice. And a barrel length of 28-30 inch. How much powder will a MAX loaded .700 bmg imp case take? Hubel you said something about 320 grains

Lets see.. 1000 grain bullet and 320 grains of powder and a rifle weight of 30 Ibs. The recoil will be 193 (ft/lbs) My 460 has a weight of 11 Ibs and with a 500 grainer at 2600 fps it will give 90 (ft/lbs). The .700 Will have a recoil over the double But that is only with the MAX load. If the 1000 grainers is only going 2400 fps with say 250 grains of powder the recoil will be 111 (ft/lbs) The same as my .460! But I am sure that with a good muzzel brake the recoil will not be so bad att 2400FPS!

Robgunbuilder!
I think that you have told me once that a .700 BMG IMP is possible to build with a weight of only 18-20 Ibs. But then the recoil would be around 200 (ft/lbs) even at 2400 fps!

Karl!
Yes bertram makes .700 Nitro cases. And they have a good price also. Go and look at http://users.bigpond.com/ammodump/brass.html

Is a 28-30 inch barrel long enough for a cartridge that big? You may have to go a fair bit longer to take advantage of the extra powder capacity. Still, without a very serious muzzle brake, and a heavy gun, you may not want to shoot such a beast...

Lar45-- The cases for 12GA From Hell are
using same belted design as 700HE. Soldering
a rim on cases might soften and weaken them.
Might be interesting to see how it would work,
if used at lower pressures.I designed belted case to work at higher pressures. so in essense
the 12GA From Hell would be a high pressure
smoothbore that Rob envisioned.Same pressures
as the 700BMG or my 700HE.
I like the name Collarbone Express.Ed.

What bullet weight/velocity will the 12 GA From Hell have??? It would be built on a .50 BMG action or what?

Overkill-12 GA From Hell would have to be on
BMG size action for heavy loads and full pressure..Rob figured on trying to get a
2000 gr bullet up close to 2000 fps.It would be a smoothbore bullet, built nose heavy like a
regular shotgun slug, for accuracy.You could probably build one on a big single or double
rifle that could get same bullet to 14-1500,
at least, depending on barrel steel quality.
And with as heavy a case and rim that it has,
it would extract ok with rimless belted design.Ed.

I was reading in a book on cartrige conversions. It had a section on adding rims and soldering tubes on to lengthen cases. It said to solder, then air cool, so it would optimize the hardness of the cartrige brass and should be good up to 40kpsi. My 50BMG cases are slightly smaller than 12ga, so that's why I was thinking about soldering on a rim to try and keep 12ga dimensions. Why not go with a rifled barrel instead of a smooth bore. 12ga slug barrels are legal, just have one made that will handle the pressure.

Lar45-Yes it would be ok to use rifled 12 ga
barrel also.Rob just mentioned trying it with
a smoothbore.I had a thought on how to put rim
of 12 ga diameter on a BMG case, and still be
good for 70k pressures.And be faster and easier than soldering.Turn off rim to bottom of
groove and thread on a .250 thick brass washer,
of 12 ga rim diameter.Chamfer the washer so it
fits a small radius on the front of groove.Take
off the slant on front of groove also down to a
small radius.Eliminates cracking problems.
Threading thick washers and case base is fast way.
Put it on with loctite or stake it on.Torque it on about 30 - 50 ft lbs.
Then turn to 12 ga dimensions and rim size.You would have a case completely level from new
rim forward,I have to build about 4 tools and
I will build some cases later this year.Will be able to make full length or 12 ga brass length, or
whatever anyone wants.I know if they were done
this way, IE with full size rim, everyone would like them better..Ed.

I am getting a lead on brass washers.
I am going to make a 12GA From Hell with a
regular 12 ga rim for those wanting them.
Then the chamber will be of same exact base dimensions as regular 12 ga shell.So that paper
and plasic shotgum shells
can be used in same shamber also, We can thank
LAR for the idea of putting rim on, only we will thread pieces on
instead of soldering.Ed.

Ed- Amazing. I had thought of exactly the same thing for threading on a brass ring to a .50 BMG case. The main concept was to create a 12 guage from Hell that would still fire regular 12 ga cartridges. This way there are no legal issues at all and with a rifled barrel or smootbore you still get unbelievable performance. The only issue is what action to use. Right now I'm thinking of just making a new bolt for my Mcmillan repeater with FLAT locking lugs and a sako type extractor so that this action can be made to work with the rimmed case. . I can then switch bolts and barrels for .50BMG based cartridges.-Rob

i have some loads for a .700 imp bmg.

1,000gr woodleigh bullet
330gr of H4831 3,067fps 36inch barrel..26in 2,892
330gr of rl-22 3,102fps 36in..26inch 2,911 fps

775gr solid
315gr of Imr4350 3,427fps! 36in..26in 3,166fps

1,925gr custom bullet
265gr of H1000 2137fps 36in.. 26in 2,068fps

out of Vhp mag year 2000 no 3

12 GA Collarbone express! I love it! When I first played with the 600 OK, I made some brass belts and soldered them to a 585 Nyati basic brass case. I never even considered firing it. I've learned that turned brass cases made from 360 half hard is PERFECTLY ok up to at least 38KPSI. A soldered on brass rim probably would be ok at those pressures, but the 12 ga from hell is designed for 50-60 KPSI so I would not go that far. However, a case full of H50BMG with a 2000 gr bullet would probably not exceed those limits and give one serious performance. A 12 ga from hell can indeed be made in the 20lb class and with agood muzzel brake it will be completely shootable.
Overkill my offer still stands. Fly across the pond and I'll let you be the first to shoot it!-Rob

30-378--Those are the kind of velocities that that case and my 700HE should get.How heavy
of a rifle was those fired from.What action?

Rob-I am glad that we (You, Lar, others,
and me)figured a way to get 12GA
From Hell, built with a full 12 ga rim.If I
am lucky, I will have one done and show picture
in two weeks.If everyone who wants 12GA From
Hell, wants it with a rim, that makes it easier for me and the wildcat I want to claim--- my
belted 700HE. IE they will be completely different.And definitely look different.
Only thing similiar, is they both are big.
And 12GA will have rim extension threaded on,
and be good for 70,000 psi.Ed.

ED- If I have some time this weekend I may make one also. Perhaps if there is enough interest we could get a deal going with Pac-Nor for some 12 Ga rifled barrels. Like I did with the 600 OK Barrels. If enough of us were interested, we could split the cost of a reamer and the barrels. Who is in on this idea?-Rob

330gr of rl-22 3,102fps 36inch barrel and the 26inch 2,911 fps. Does 10 inch longer barrel only give less than 200 FPS more?

I am still like the .700 BMG IMP more than the 12 GA From Hell because there is not much difference in the bullet diameter and the .700 can be loaded with soft points and at much higer velocity. It will then make bigger wounds on game.

Why make a 12 GA from hell? The bullet will have the same diameter as my shotgun, but more weight and velocity. It will still not give bigger wounds than a 12 GA shotgun!

Rob!
If you pay the trip for me And then you come back with me to north sweden were I live and we go to hunt moose for a week or two.

state arms action.. weight of gun 27 pounds..
yes the velocity is correct..
he didnt say anything about barrel life..
he did say he had to write the batf for
permission to build a larger than .510 bore
gun..this is in the usa of course..
now i have seen 20mm lahti load data
also if this gun isnt big enough...
1500gr bullet at 3,370fps using 720 grains! of
T570 powder..
2000gr bullet at 2720fps with 600gr of T570
i know you could just get a tank and be
done with it.. p.s i can't afford any of these guns..im just posting data for you to read..i would like to own a .500A2 someday

30-378--Thanks for info.When you have info
and ideas jump in.That's what this big bore forum is all about;Everyone's input that can help
all of us.Hope you get your A-SQ soon.Sometime
down the road I like to get a Lahti to play with.

Overkill- velocity gains that an extra 10 in of barrel with a relatively straight case like
the 700 BMG IMP, is what you would expect using single-base stick powder, as all of my testing on my 458HE showed.If they were using DB Ball the gains would be about 50% more in comparison to single-base..Ed.

The 12 ga from Hell is actually a .700 BMG on steroids and totally legal! It's the direct result of sick minds with way too much machinining and gun building experience. Damn it's fun!-Rob

Okay, so what are you going to use for 12ga FH bullets? Turn them out of 3/4" brass round bar?
If things are kept similar enough, couldn't you just use a 12ga 3 1/2" reamer?
I was looking at www.mountainmolds.com the other day and it looks like he's made a 70 cal mold for someone. I have 7 of his molds for 454 and they are all very nicely done. Maybe a 2000gn Hard cast, oven hardened at 2200fps would be pleanty? And cheap to shoot. I'm glad that surplus 5010 is only $3 a pound. Or would it need a faster powder for the straight walled case? Maybe a kicker to get it going? Now where to get 70 cal gaschecks?

Thoughts on the 12ga/50 from hell.

For shotloads you will need a smoothbore and no brake on at the time.

Rifled means it is just a 727BMG which is okay -will lose the 700's hunting bullet choices though.

Max loads mean a ground fired gun.

I think the best idea for the 12ga from hell as some have hinted at is keeping loads mild, and thus light enough to be shoulder fired -a monstrous fun shotgun

Because a max power groundfired smoothbore is going to lose a lot of fun alongside a normal 700BMG.
You lose about 300yards 'effective range',nothing much over 100 yards - and can't even drag it out to hit any ferals or varmints with like you can a rifled BMG child.
All for the novelty to occasionally fire a 12ga shell.

I'd build one light enough to 'shotgun' with or just make a true rifled 727 instead.

Karl.

[ 07-27-2003, 04:40: Message edited by: Karl ]

Rob-Karl-30-378-Overkill-All-It rained me off of
outside work.Made some thick brass washers
and built a couple of 12GA From Hell cases with
a rim.Rim is screwed on with about .240 length of
a medium fine thread.Turned BMG rim off down to
.020 smaller than groove diameter, and threaded with a die.Tapped thick washer same thread.Also took the forward slant of groove down to get square shoulder to torque washer against.Left a small radius, and a corresponding chamfer on front
of washer.Then machine washer flush to the back of case.Them machine to same level as case base back to rim thickness.When my son in few days
gets back from camping, I will get picture posted
of it along side of regular 12 ga case.It is smooth and straight from rim forward. Looks neat,
and mean.I wonder how it would work get one of those monoblock 10
ga single shots ane replace barrel with a heavy
long thick sided one?ED.

Hubel458- I made one today also. Took a .50BMG case and turned the rim off and machined it down to .6283. Threaded the case 5/8X18TPI, then made a .880 rim section about .350 thick beveled to fit over the rear extractor groove bevel of the case and drilled and tapped 5/8X18. The rim section screws on very nicely and gives the appearance of a continuous case! Looks great and impressed everybody. You could use a 3.5 inch 12 guage magnum reamer for the case but you'd have to shorten the .50BMG case which is 3.90 inches long. I'd rather grind off the rim cutting section on a second reamer and run it in to full case length.-Rob

I'll have to read CFR 26 again, but I recall reading somewhere about a restriction to 3.5" for shotgun cases. I don't remember where it was at though. Could have been in some hunting regs???????????????????

If you also could use the .12 GA From Hell as a shotgun. What MAX load as a shotgun? A 12/76 shotgun has a load of almost 900 grains shots.

Karl! A .700 BMG will also make much bigger wounds with a Woodleigh 1000 grainer or a 1200 grain Hawk bullet than a 12 GA From Hell with a solid slug bullet. And you have right about the range. With a 12 GA FH you can shot at around 100 yards max. The .700 BMG �s a flat shooter with a 1000 grainer at 3200 FPS!!!

Rob-Did you do the final machining to size
after the washer was on the case.That's what I
did.And the threads held the washer on fine
while machining.It is really stronger than I
figured it would be...I am really glad we are figuring this out as a way for all with a lathe to be able to put a rim on BMG cases..I only want to do my belted cases.It has been great day,
by getting this sorted out.

Overkill-If you get 1500 to 2000 gr bullets from fritz454 for 12GA FH made out of solid brass,
they are as same shape as others you mention
and just as streamlined as blunt noses can be..If you get them up to 18-2200 fps they will shoot much flatter than regular shotgun slugs by far.So they will be a good 250 yd bullet.And if you wanted lighter bullets in 12 ga he could make
down to 10-1200 grains for 3000 fps.Ed.

I checked the NFA and didn't see any restriction as to shotgun case length. It must have been some hunting regs that I saw the restriction to 3.5". So the 3.9" full length BMG case would help so it couldn't chamber in a regular 12ga.